Medical Marijuana in Colorado and Washington

sokesleezy · Dec 4, 2016

Could someone enlighten me? Before Prop 64 passed in California, I was having a conversation with people about this. The thing that struck me was when they told me that all the medical shops in Washington have been shut down. Why? This person also told me that now, people only have access to recreational goods, which are lower in quality than what the medical shops used to be. Is this true? What exactly separates medical from recreational quality wise? I thought the only difference was that financially, recreational is taxed heavier than medical. I suppose this thread is directed more so towards Washington, but I am curious about how things are going in Colorado as well.

CarolKing · Dec 4, 2016

If you read through some of the online news stories about WA it's basically all the same. We have recreational and medical but the only thing different is medical patients don't have to pay 9% sales tax. That's only cannabis stores that have a medical cannabis consult that is a employee. Some stores are only recreational. That means medical patients don't get the 9% tax savings. I go to shops that have a medical cannabis consultant. That 9% savings adds up over a year.

I had thought cannbais patients would be offered higher THC levels with flowers, waxes and food. That's not the case. All the products that are offered are for everyone.

The edibles are really expensive for the medical patients. The dosage is 10 %THC. I need like 125% THC to help pain. Luckily I made some cannabis oil last summer in quite a large quantity. I have banana bread and chocolate muffins in the freezer yet.

The quality of the flowers haven't suffered, sometimes it's on the dry side though. The cost ranges from about $8 - $18 a gram. There are large selections of waxes and shatter.

Having the product labeled as to the THC and CBD levels and when it was harvested is a real plus. I do look for strains 19% or more. Folks that were in prison for simple cannabis crimes were let out. That is the best part.

I preferred the medical cannabis before the change over. Other states may do a better job with integrating medical and recreational. What's wrong with keeping medical cannabis separate?

I'm looking at this whole thing here as a work in progress. There's a lot of medical cannabis advocates hoping to make things better. Patients still don't have access for clones and seeds if we wanted to grow. The state still needs to make provisions for that. They put folks in to make decisions for the medical cannabis industry that don't know what they are doing.

Basically the cannabis tax is a revenue maker for the lawmakers and for the people of this state. If they keep the taxes and citizens high it's a win win for everybody. Then they have stupid laws where you can't use cannabis anywhere except in your homes. That's when vaporizing comes in handy. Low smell when you need to be stealth. Or as stealth as possible. Not like the combusting days. :sherlock:

sokesleezy · Dec 5, 2016

Interesting. So there were never medical exclusive shops in the first place?

I'm kinda surprised to hear that about the seeds and clones. I take it that its still illegal for a brick and mortar to sell these?

Thanks for the response

CarolKing · Dec 5, 2016

We had medical cannabis dispensaries exclusive for patients since about 1999 - 2000 medical became legal in 1998. All the medical dispensaries were shut down July 1 2016. Its all the same now pretty much. We have an alcohol and cannabis board that makes a lot of the decisions along with the legislature pertaining to our state's cannabis. Laws are super strict.

For a recreational user the tax is a total of 47% the tax for a medical patient is 38% depending on the sales tax in your town or city. I save 9% being a patient in the area where I live. Medical patients if they are on the registry, you don't need to pay the sales tax. Cannabis is making a lot of money for our state.

damm · Dec 5, 2016

sokesleezy said:
Could someone enlighten me? Before Prop 64 passed in California, I was having a conversation with people about this. The thing that struck me was when they told me that all the medical shops in Washington have been shut down. Why? This person also told me that now, people only have access to recreational goods, which are lower in quality than what the medical shops used to be. Is this true? What exactly separates medical from recreational quality wise? I thought the only difference was that financially, recreational is taxed heavier than medical. I suppose this thread is directed more so towards Washington, but I am curious about how things are going in Colorado as well.

I'm from Washington; the reason we closed the medical Marijuana shops was greed. Our governor wanted more tax money

It's possible other states can follow this trend; but colorado hasn't. So I suspect greed is required in order to shut down medical marijuana in order to increase your tax dollars.

It's a shame I found some really good bud that was legit off the Dispensaries that I cannot find legally. I always find people selling Tangie but it's not from DNA Genetics. You can even point it out to the shop and they don't understand it.

Receptor · Dec 5, 2016

Nervous here....me in Ca.. Noticed gram pricing reaching $20.-.. Apply with THE STATE for a
medical PLEASE,PLEASE may I card?? Patient rights/privacy??
Ain' gonna dothad if I were much much younger. Time....Stupid is, Stupid does.

CANNABIS.....Cluster Headache......Re-New...missioned......Good to-Go.

sokesleezy · Dec 6, 2016

damm said:
I'm from Washington; the reason we closed the medical Marijuana shops was greed. Our governor wanted more tax money

It's possible other states can follow this trend; but colorado hasn't. So I suspect greed is required in order to shut down medical marijuana in order to increase your tax dollars.

It's a shame I found some really good bud that was legit off the Dispensaries that I cannot find legally. I always find people selling Tangie but it's not from DNA Genetics. You can even point it out to the shop and they don't understand it.

Ive been wondering about this. I've noticed the same thing with Cookies. Maybe they received a clones of it and grew it out?

NoochieVape · Dec 6, 2016

CarolKing said:
We had medical cannabis dispensaries exclusive for patients since about 1999 - 2000 medical became legal in 1998. All the medical dispensaries were shut down July 1 2016. Its all the same now pretty much. We have an alcohol and cannabis board that makes a lot of the decisions along with the legislature pertaining to our state's cannabis. Laws are super strict.

For a recreational user the tax is a total of 47% the tax for a medical patient is 38% depending on the sales tax in your town or city. I save 9% being a patient in the area where I live. Medical patients if they are on the registry, you don't need to pay the sales tax. Cannabis is making a lot of money for our state.

Wow, I had no idea the tax is 47% for recreational users. That's really surprising and interesting that they've, at the same time, been able to keep pricing relatively low for "bottom shelf meds". I can find grams for as low at 8 bucks, eighths ranging from as low as 35 and ounces for 150.

At least coming from a non legal state, these prices are way lower than what I was paying before.

damm · Dec 6, 2016

sokesleezy said:
Ive been wondering about this. I've noticed the same thing with Cookies. Maybe they received a clones of it and grew it out?

Nah just sleazy my Tangie has a different skunk as it's parent so it's a bit more than usual. I suspect the same with Cookies

I admit with Prop 64 I am hoping that our 3 states can share recreational products down the line. It would be great to get Mendo Purps from Mendocino county instead of clones at the very best.

CarolKing · Dec 7, 2016

As you will see, there are large areas of WA state that don't have legal cannabis shops. For medical patients that creates a problem. Luckily I live in an area where there's at least 10 shops within a 10 mile radius. I would assume these folks need to grow themselves or be in a four patient group cooperative with all the regulations like video cameras.
The top map is legal / medical cannabis shops. The other one below are growers and processors.
Weekly Marijuana Report
November 30, 2016
Licensing
Producer licenses
issued Producer/Processor licenses
issued Processor licenses
issued Retail licenses
issued
175 915 139 462
Locations

View larger map
Retail locations

View larger map
Producer/Processor locations

damm · Dec 7, 2016

I believe there are still parts of Washington trying to keep Cannabis out of their locality. Also our board doesn't make it very easy to get a license to setup a shop

Infact we've had a few shops shut down recently after being robbed

TeeJay1952 · Dec 8, 2016

@damm I suspect Sheriff and local Minister. (Footloose)

psychonaut · Dec 11, 2016

In CO the dispensaries are separated, could be same location but different cash registers, mostly it's different locations in S. Colorado. Different products usually, strains, extractors. Only normal sales tax, no retail cannabis taxes. Cheaper prices for meds. Some towns and counties ban retail, medical, or both. I have to drive an hour for meds because my county has a ban.

My caregiver has a retail side, almost never have the same flower selections. Bigger focus on CBD meds as well. The med side has mostly laplata labs, thseeds, and tga subcool genetics. Rec side no idea what genetics they are using its a lot of popular strains though.

They do buy cannabis from outside producers and sell it in both med and retail, but it's all preallocated. Retail cannabis can't be grown as such and sold under med to the best of my knowledge.

damm · Dec 11, 2016

psychonaut said:
In CO the dispensaries are separated, could be same location but different cash registers, mostly it's different locations in S. Colorado. Different products usually, strains, extractors. Only normal sales tax, no retail cannabis taxes. Cheaper prices for meds. Some towns and counties ban retail, medical, or both. I have to drive an hour for meds because my county has a ban.

My caregiver has a retail side, almost never have the same flower selections. Bigger focus on CBD meds as well. The med side has mostly laplata labs, thseeds, and tga subcool genetics. Rec side no idea what genetics they are using its a lot of popular strains though.

They do buy cannabis from outside producers and sell it in both med and retail, but it's all preallocated. Retail cannabis can't be grown as such and sold under med to the best of my knowledge.

Yeah that's why I wasn't too sad when the medical side closed down as a lot of the shops I ran into didn't really have _ANY_ CBD selection most of the time. It was high THC central

AK-47 was huge and a lot of the really quick indoor cash crops

But all we have is recreational now; the card just gets you a discount at the store 10% and if you sign up to the public registry you can have the whole tax removed. That's the 19% tax not the other

Things could easily go black market if Trump forces us to... most medical patients are growing or likely reaching out to the black market again for their products as legal is not cheap

Maitri · Dec 12, 2016

damm said:
But all we have is recreational now; the card just gets you a discount at the store 10% and if you sign up to the public registry you can have the whole tax removed. That's the 19% tax not the other

This is the first I have heard of this. What do you mean by "if you sign up to the public registry you can have the whole tax removed" ? And what 19% tax are you referring to? The only taxes I am familiar with here in WA are the 37% excise tax and the sales tax. I am under the impression that WA MMJ users are sales tax exempt but not excise tax exempt. Is this the case or am I confused?

Thanks!

CarolKing · Dec 12, 2016

@Maitri is right, medical patients pay a 37% tax if you are in the registry. If you choose to not be in the registry it's 47% tax. There's no 19% tax savings for patients. I wish there was. Patients shouldn't have to pay but a small tax IMO. The state of WA are taking advantage of sick people. Patients save on city sales tax is all. That might be anywhere from 9%-10%. Depending on the city you live in.

It's greed that runs the whole tax system here in WA. Be careful about added fees to your medicine - it adds up quickly.

We don't have a state income tax so our taxes here are through the roof. Our alcohol tax is very high too, people call it a sin tax :bang:

I could see Trump wanting a cut for the federal government if cannabis is changed by the Feds. So that would be another added tax. I'm surprised our cannabis prices have stayed so low with all the tax. Can you imagine how cheap it would be with no taxes?

I'm all for taxes helping out states and this helps to talk the lawmakers into making cannabis legal. A 47% tax is just too high for us here in WA.

Edit
@Crohnie I had noticed last year and probably before that, a lot of lawmakers think that most medical patients are taking advantage of the system. The lawmakers felt most weren't really medical patients. Attitude and ignorance had a lot to do with it.

I'm not sure what the THC limits are here but I'm seeing some pretty high levels of THC with the flowers as well as the waxes. I don't know if I always trust those THC levels anyway. It's what my body tells me.

I just tried a 27% THC cannabis (pinapple moonshine) and then another strain at 16% (gorilla glue) and the 16% was stronger to me. The 16% was harvested in July. The 27% was harvested in Nov. I was surprised at the difference. Both were sativa hybrids with the same CBD levels. This company called KIONA also put a small Beveda package in the jar with the 16% cannabis. I will look for that company's name again.

@damm
Well it looks like you paid around $154 without any extra taxes thats added for the customer. Your tax was $56. That sounds about right. You must be a medical patient because you got $20 right off the top which was more of a discount than the 10%. I get an extra 10% at some shops because I'm over 55. Military gets 10% off too. Some strains are also discounted on some days.

There's taxes the processor pays and the farmers. I'm not sure what those % are I just pay attention to my taxes. It comes down to the customer either pays 37% tax as a general rule or 47% tax if you don't have a medical card and on the registry. The taxes are already calculated in the prices on the packages except for the sales tax. If your cannabis is $9 a gram that is what you pay if you are on the medical registry. Taxes were higher for the stores initially, this new system did take more pressure off the cannabis stores far as taxes go - not sure what taxes the stores pay? They pay plenty in overhead fees if they have a brick and mortar store. Many were almost going out of business back in 2015 taxes and overhead was too high for the shops.

I would like delivery service cannabis. Our lawmakers made sure we didn't get that as an option, they voted NO. That should have been an option for patients anyway.

Sorry so long.

Crohnie · Dec 12, 2016

I didn't know that about Washington. Bummer...Things are certainly different in Colorado. Some shops are strictly medical and some strictly recreational. Quite a few in my area are both. Medical prices are significantly lower than recreational. Top shelf stuff is $25/eighth including tax. Recreational is almost twice that. There are no limits on THC content and more powerful edibles and concentrates on the medical side.

damm · Dec 12, 2016

psychonaut said:
In CO the dispensaries are separated, could be same location but different cash registers, mostly it's different locations in S. Colorado. Different products usually, strains, extractors. Only normal sales tax, no retail cannabis taxes. Cheaper prices for meds. Some towns and counties ban retail, medical, or both. I have to drive an hour for meds because my county has a ban.

My caregiver has a retail side, almost never have the same flower selections. Bigger focus on CBD meds as well. The med side has mostly laplata labs, thseeds, and tga subcool genetics. Rec side no idea what genetics they are using its a lot of popular strains though.

They do buy cannabis from outside producers and sell it in both med and retail, but it's all preallocated. Retail cannabis can't be grown as such and sold under med to the best of my knowledge.

Maitri said:
This is the first I have heard of this. What do you mean by "if you sign up to the public registry you can have the whole tax removed" ? And what 19% tax are you referring to? The only taxes I am familiar with here in WA are the 37% excise tax and the sales tax. I am under the impression that WA MMJ users are sales tax exempt but not excise tax exempt. Is this the case or am I confused?

Thanks!

Other tax? I am not on the public registry so looking at my receipt I see it break down like this

Grand Total: 200$ Total
20.00 Discount
45.44 Cannabis Tax
11.68 Other Taxes
Total: 180$

That 20$ was taken from the other taxes

You can't get rid of the Cannabis tax but you can reduce the sales tax; it's some deal that the state put together with the processors and sellers so the dispensaries are not left holding the bag.

damm · Dec 12, 2016

CarolKing said:
@Maitri
@damm
Well it looks like you paid around $154 without any extra taxes thats added for the customer. Your tax was $56. That sounds about right. You must be a medical patient because you got $20 right off the top which was more of a discount than the 10%. I get an extra 10% at some shops because I'm over 55. Military gets 10% off too. Some strains are also discounted on some days.

Take a look at 502data.com you'll find some of the information reported as far as how much taxes they pay. It's not the greatest breakdown I had hopes to use the data but it's semi-useful in it's current state.

It's not a lot of savings but it helps. Rather limited on our growing and legally obtaining seeds from growers i've heard about it. Doesn't sound that fun maybe we can get clones the same way? at least then it's semi worth it.

t-dub · Dec 12, 2016

Here in Oregon medical patients have access to concentrates and edibles that rec users do not. There is also a tax break but I'm not sure if that is the state tax, the county tax, or the city tax . . . :rolleyes:

Anyways, I do not have this problem as I sign my card over to a Rembrandt who takes care of me for free.

Free weed rulez . . . :tup:

Yes, that is an eight foot ladder. 1 of 6 . . . :peace:

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