next generation e-nails?

alittledabwilldoya'

Sapphire Powered Dabstronaut.
I received my RDK-150 back from Auber yesterday, and my travel set-up is finally functional again!
Thank god, I am no fan of the torch.

There was an issue with the on/off toggle switch.
Auber fixed it for free even though it was slightly out of warranty.
Even installed a more robust toggle switch!

Very good tech support.
Highly recommend Auber for economical, high quality enail controllers.

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=45

:D
 

herbivore21

Well-Known Member
Hmm, Have you guys seen this? I know it's not a Halo or a Liger but for those looking for a Cheap alternative these look better than the tiny trough Chinese quartz hybrids at least?

https://www.thickassglass.com/colle...removable-silicon-carbide-dish-14-18mm-female
Man I dunno how you'd get a reasonable dab into a dish moat that is so narrow lol. Especially if you are using a shovel type tool with crumble or unpressed full melt or something, that nail is gonna be a one-way ticket to wastage city!

Still, for smaller dabs of conventional oils you will need to aim carefully but should be less of a problem. :2c:
 

alittledabwilldoya'

Sapphire Powered Dabstronaut.
Man I dunno how you'd get a reasonable dab into a dish moat that is so narrow lol. Especially if you are using a shovel type tool with crumble or unpressed full melt or something, that nail is gonna be a one-way ticket to wastage city!

Still, for smaller dabs of conventional oils you will need to aim carefully but should be less of a problem. :2c:

Locking nut is huge, further restricting access to the dabbing dish.

:doh:
 
alittledabwilldoya',
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weenstoned

Well-Known Member
I'd consider ordering the dish only as I think there's a chance it would fit in place of my chinese quartz dish, but shipping from the USA costs more than shipping from China. Still hoping some Chinese vendor busts our the SiC, but if I am gonna be spending $50+ then I'd rather put that money towards a Liger maybe.
 
weenstoned,

herbivore21

Well-Known Member
I'd consider ordering the dish only as I think there's a chance it would fit in place of my chinese quartz dish, but shipping from the USA costs more than shipping from China. Still hoping some Chinese vendor busts our the SiC, but if I am gonna be spending $50+ then I'd rather put that money towards a Liger maybe.
Man SiC is definitely worth spending a little on. It is cheaper than good (but not ultra high priced PB type stuff) US quartz or similarly priced typically, tastes and vapes better/more efficiently and will last you a lifetime :)

For somebody who is wanting to ensure maximum bang for buck, I would always recommend SiC because of this. Quartz will need to be replaced eventually, even sapphire can suffer this problem too as we know (of course sapphire tastes noticeably better than SiC and even moreso than quartz)!

Of course if a genuine SiC dish that is larger came out in China, you could get that and have your cake and eat it too (even if you're dabbin' large!). ;)
 
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weenstoned

Well-Known Member
Man SiC is definitely worth spending a little on. It is cheaper than good (but not ultra high priced PB type stuff) US quartz or similarly priced typically, tastes and vapes better/more efficiently and will last you a lifetime :)

For somebody who is wanting to ensure maximum bang for buck, I would always recommend SiC because of this. Quartz will need to be replaced eventually, even sapphire can suffer this problem too as we know (of course sapphire tastes noticeably better than SiC and even moreso than quartz)!

Of course if a genuine SiC dish that is larger came out in China, you could get that and have your cake and eat it too (even if you're dabbin' large!). ;)

I don't really get crumble or full melt ever, nor do I dab very big typically so I don't think the size would be a huge issue (though I think it looks a bit smaller than it actually is in the pictures as it's 25mm). Just don't want it bad enough to spend $50 on something that could be better, or $30 on a dish that doesn't fit the nail I already have. Recently found a glass/quartzblower in Canada who sells domestic 25mm bangers for $45 so I have been meaning to pick up a couple of those as only one of my heady rigs comfortably supports an e-nail (if more did I would be more eager to upgrade my e-nail set-up), I have a couple of carb caps that don't work with e-nails (well maybe the Liger), and I also kinda like the torch ritual.

Pretty sure if I pulled the trigger I would find a DHGate listing while the TAG nail was still in transit. I am sure SiC and sapphire are excellent but I will remain blissfully ignorant with my quartz for a while longer.
 
weenstoned,

weenstoned

Well-Known Member
Decided to message a vendor on DHGate to see if they can get SiC dish nails. Made slightly harder by the fact that DHGate won't allow you to link to other sites in their messages. I would just buy it on thickassglass if I thought it was designed great, but that huge centre nut makes me want a deal.
 

grokit

well-worn member
I saw that thickassglass was selling that sic dish separately;
I wonder if it would fit my dhgate hybrid nail :hmm:
 
grokit,

darkrom

Great Scott!
I've been dabbing on a lot of super nice quartz nails (friends not mine not bragging haha) and I'm starting to wonder if anyone else feels like the real high end quartz stuff is even better than the best of the best e-nail stuff in some ways?

I don't know maybe it is just me. Right now my setup is d-nail 1.2 and the SIC dish, which was my fav setup. I prefered it to the sapphire insert which feels like it is just never at the right temp. I've got it set to 565 right now for just the d-nail and SIC. I can't seem to get the flavor that I get out of a thermal p banger or out of a toro grail when it is clean etc. Is this just me? Should I REALLY be able to beat that flavor? Those low temp quartz dabs with the torch are tasting like candy, nothing I've been able to replicate at ANY temp on my shitty china quartz nails, even at ultra low temps where I was okay "wasting to tasting" as they say. This is of course the exact same oil from the exact same gram on both nails.


Am I crazy? I think I have one of the best e-nail setups shy of the sapphire dish which I'll never spend the $ on no matter what. Anyone else want to comment? Do I need to go even lower on the SIC? I just can't match that quartz flavor! And the same is true with the highly educated QUARTZ dish. Still doesn't taste nearly as good as a torch low temp off a high end quartz nail, but I can't even venture a guess as to why that would be!
 

MileHighLife

Blower of glass, grower of grass
I've been dabbing on a lot of super nice quartz nails (friends not mine not bragging haha) and I'm starting to wonder if anyone else feels like the real high end quartz stuff is even better than the best of the best e-nail stuff in some ways?

I don't know maybe it is just me. Right now my setup is d-nail 1.2 and the SIC dish, which was my fav setup. I prefered it to the sapphire insert which feels like it is just never at the right temp. I've got it set to 565 right now for just the d-nail and SIC. I can't seem to get the flavor that I get out of a thermal p banger or out of a toro grail when it is clean etc. Is this just me? Should I REALLY be able to beat that flavor? Those low temp quartz dabs with the torch are tasting like candy, nothing I've been able to replicate at ANY temp on my shitty china quartz nails, even at ultra low temps where I was okay "wasting to tasting" as they say. This is of course the exact same oil from the exact same gram on both nails.


Am I crazy? I think I have one of the best e-nail setups shy of the sapphire dish which I'll never spend the $ on no matter what. Anyone else want to comment? Do I need to go even lower on the SIC? I just can't match that quartz flavor! And the same is true with the highly educated QUARTZ dish. Still doesn't taste nearly as good as a torch low temp off a high end quartz nail, but I can't even venture a guess as to why that would be!
I made a post mentioning this a while back as I love my Joel Halen Troughs but got about the same reception as you did. To me an e-nail is ONLY more efficient ... quartz torch nails at low temps waste a lot but you can't beat the flavor. I'm sure someone will chime in and say it's because I don't have a d-nail sapphire dish or insert for my liger but increased thermal conductivity will not increase flavor. I'd love to try sapphire but I refuse to jump on any band wagons when I'm more than happy with SiC and sapphire seems like a downgrade when considering the specs and the fragility.
 

weenstoned

Well-Known Member
I can only compare cheap enails to cheap bangers but I have found torch and banger to generally taste better. I would guess it might be related to no titanium in the air path or that banger pieces are often smaller than those needed to support an enail.
 

KimDracula

Well-Known Member
The consensus seems to be that quartz has an edge in flavor over SiC while sapphire is supposed to be the best yet. I haven't tried sapphire but have found the rest to be true. I prefer SiC for day to day use, however, because the flavor is still good and the greater thermal conductivity provides for better, more complete rips, IMO. I can't really speak to the benefits of more expensive quartz nails but the flavor from even cheap domeless quartz with the e-nail was wonderful at the right temperature. I just couldn't get around a significant amount of waste with quartz.
 

herbivore21

Well-Known Member
The consensus seems to be that quartz has an edge in flavor over SiC while sapphire is supposed to be the best yet. I haven't tried sapphire but have found the rest to be true. I prefer SiC for day to day use, however, because the flavor is still good and the greater thermal conductivity provides for better, more complete rips, IMO. I can't really speak to the benefits of more expensive quartz nails but the flavor from even cheap domeless quartz with the e-nail was wonderful at the right temperature. I just couldn't get around a significant amount of waste with quartz.
IME quartz doesn't have the edge over SiC because the flavor difference is negligible and different materials taste better/worse. I find all of my full melt tastes better on SiC than quartz. More to the point, you cannot get oil to taste anywhere near as good as SiC without bringing the temp down low enough that you get substantial trails/incomplete vaporization.

I can speak for super expensive PB quartz as well as the d-nail quartz halo (mine gathers dust, despite being by far the best quartz I ever dabbed on - despite having owned much more expensive PB products!). This all holds true. Quartz is good for people who are on a low budget (obviously cheap quartz though, not the PB or d-nail one!), but otherwise, it is to be avoided. Expensive quartz has had its time in the sun and is not competitive with SiC/Sapphire.
 

MileHighLife

Blower of glass, grower of grass
IME quartz doesn't have the edge over SiC because the flavor difference is negligible and different materials taste better/worse. I find all of my full melt tastes better on SiC than quartz. More to the point, you cannot get oil to taste anywhere near as good as SiC without bringing the temp down low enough that you get substantial trails/incomplete vaporization.

I can speak for super expensive PB quartz as well as the d-nail quartz halo (mine gathers dust, despite being by far the best quartz I ever dabbed on - despite having owned much more expensive PB products!). This all holds true. Quartz is good for people who are on a low budget (obviously cheap quartz though, not the PB or d-nail one!), but otherwise, it is to be avoided. Expensive quartz has had its time in the sun and is not competitive with SiC/Sapphire.
"Otherwise it is to be avoided" :huh:. The D-Nail quartz never did it for me ... ended up selling mine. For efficiency you are spot on, however for some of us we like to waste it so we can taste it. Don't get me wrong the e-nails always have their place but quartz isn't going anywhere.
 
MileHighLife,

herbivore21

Well-Known Member
"Otherwise it is to be avoided" :huh:. The D-Nail quartz never did it for me ... ended up selling mine. For efficiency you are spot on, however for some of us we like to waste it so we can taste it. Don't get me wrong the e-nails always have their place but quartz isn't going anywhere.
Not sure if you were expressing confusion man? There is cheap quartz which is unmatched in price by anything else that tastes better - that is the only scenario I would recommend it in from my own experiences.

If you like it man by all means use quartz, but I haven't dabbed on quartz in at least a year! I only use SiC with a torch, I never liked quartz with a torch much. I've only dabbed on sapphire e-nails for a very long time now but if I didn't have the money for sapphire and could stretch it to pay for SiC, I'd take SiC over any quartz I've ever used, no matter how high end. I've never had better taste from quartz than the best taste I've had with SiC. I should say though that I have heard that some varieties/chemotypes lend themselves more to quartz or SiC so that might be a factor (nothing I've had has tasted better on quartz than SiC with the temps dialled in for both though, even if accepting some waste trails). I do find that quartz has a noticeable harshness that it seems to impart to full melt compared to SiC or Sapphire and full melt takes notably longer to melt up before vaporizing on quartz vs the alternatives (these may be related). It just doesn't transfer heat efficiently compared to the alternatives and so this isn't surprising.

One thing that really put me off of quartz early on is the wastage. In my view (and now that there are more sapphire nails than ever before!), it is much better to spend more money on sapphire if you don't want SiC for some reason than to waste a portion of your dabs in trails. The cost will build up and exceed the price difference over time, varying by what you spend on your oil of course. What I like about SiC and sapphire is you get a great taste from start to finish. You can inhale all of the vapor and the taste is never bad if you have good tasting material. That is much more important for my needs. I work hard to make the best possible medicine for myself and if I don't have to waste it and I can still taste it, then I'll take that option every time!

Of course, for someone that is a very occasional user, this argument may not wash!

Nothing meant against you at all man, just saying my piece. It might be that you usually dab kinds of material that I've never dabbed and that this material for some reason tastes better on quartz - who knows?



I don't really get crumble or full melt ever, nor do I dab very big typically so I don't think the size would be a huge issue (though I think it looks a bit smaller than it actually is in the pictures as it's 25mm). Just don't want it bad enough to spend $50 on something that could be better, or $30 on a dish that doesn't fit the nail I already have. Recently found a glass/quartzblower in Canada who sells domestic 25mm bangers for $45 so I have been meaning to pick up a couple of those as only one of my heady rigs comfortably supports an e-nail (if more did I would be more eager to upgrade my e-nail set-up), I have a couple of carb caps that don't work with e-nails (well maybe the Liger), and I also kinda like the torch ritual.

Pretty sure if I pulled the trigger I would find a DHGate listing while the TAG nail was still in transit. I am sure SiC and sapphire are excellent but I will remain blissfully ignorant with my quartz for a while longer.

Yeah definitely that size shouldn't be any trouble in your scenario from the sound of it. You are dabbing the right sized dabs of the right kinds of material for it to work :)

I'll be interested to hear what you say when you try SiC man!



Also for those saying that they have tasted better hits on high end torch quartz than high end enails - here's an explainer of what you might be seeing:

Torched nails cool down after the dab hits the dish. They continue to cool as they are not having any additional heat applied. This means that the end of the hit gets less burned. It may or may not mean more trails (the style of nail will influence this a lot as well as the shape of your flame).

A torch flame gets heat over more of the surface area of most dishes too. This means more of your nail is directly heated with a torch than using a coil.

An enail on the other hand adds more heat after you dab and put the cap on top to balance the temp back out from the heat transferred to the freshly placed cap. It applies heat to one part of the dish (either the side with a barrel coil, or the floor of the dish with a flat coil). This means that this part of the dish is where your dab needs to hit. This varies with some designs.

Any inert, evenly heated dish will give you the ideal flavor. However, the trick is in getting the perfect temp with a torch every time - a number of the contributing variables to torching to perfect temp are out of the users control and so this is a challenge - some nail designs are more helpful than others for this. Different quartz will be very different in how hard it is to get the perfect temp. When you do though, and especially when the temp dip after you dab is just right - you could very conceivably get a better tasting dab than an enail with the same nail.

I don't like torches because I want consistency and ease-of-use (I medicate bad and persisent insomnia and don't wanna wake up in the night and use a torch half asleep!) - sapphire e-nails give me that. They've also given me better hits than the best torch + expensive quartz dabs I've had - not everyone will be in a scenario where sapphire and SiC enails work though, I get it.

Yes, the above mention of different heat behavior on enail vs torch and nail has obvious implications for new e-nail designs re: what to do when a cap is applied!
 
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MileHighLife

Blower of glass, grower of grass
Not sure if you were expressing confusion man? There is cheap quartz which is unmatched in price by anything else that tastes better - that is the only scenario I would recommend it in from my own experiences.

If you like it man by all means use quartz, but I haven't dabbed on quartz in at least a year! I only use SiC with a torch, I never liked quartz with a torch much. I've only dabbed on sapphire e-nails for a very long time now but if I didn't have the money for sapphire and could stretch it to pay for SiC, I'd take SiC over any quartz I've ever used, no matter how high end. I've never had better taste from quartz than the best taste I've had with SiC. I should say though that I have heard that some varieties/chemotypes lend themselves more to quartz or SiC so that might be a factor (nothing I've had has tasted better on quartz than SiC with the temps dialled in for both though, even if accepting some waste trails). I do find that quartz has a noticeable harshness that it seems to impart to full melt compared to SiC or Sapphire and full melt takes notably longer to melt up before vaporizing on quartz vs the alternatives (these may be related). It just doesn't transfer heat efficiently compared to the alternatives and so this isn't surprising.

One thing that really put me off of quartz early on is the wastage. In my view (and now that there are more sapphire nails than ever before!), it is much better to spend more money on sapphire if you don't want SiC for some reason than to waste a portion of your dabs in trails. The cost will build up and exceed the price difference over time, varying by what you spend on your oil of course. What I like about SiC and sapphire is you get a great taste from start to finish. You can inhale all of the vapor and the taste is never bad if you have good tasting material. That is much more important for my needs. I work hard to make the best possible medicine for myself and if I don't have to waste it and I can still taste it, then I'll take that option every time!

Of course, for someone that is a very occasional user, this argument may not wash!

Nothing meant against you at all man, just saying my piece. It might be that you usually dab kinds of material that I've never dabbed and that this material for some reason tastes better on quartz - who knows?





Yeah definitely that size shouldn't be any trouble in your scenario from the sound of it. You are dabbing the right sized dabs of the right kinds of material for it to work :)

I'll be interested to hear what you say when you try SiC man!



Also for those saying that they have tasted better hits on high end torch quartz than high end enails - here's an explainer of what you might be seeing:

Torched nails cool down after the dab hits the dish. They continue to cool as they are not having any additional heat applied. This means that the end of the hit gets less burned. It may or may not mean more trails (the style of nail will influence this a lot as well as the shape of your flame).

A torch flame gets heat over more of the surface area of most dishes too. This means more of your nail is directly heated with a torch than using a coil.

An enail on the other hand adds more heat after you dab and put the cap on top to balance the temp back out from the heat transferred to the freshly placed cap. It applies heat to one part of the dish (either the side with a barrel coil, or the floor of the dish with a flat coil). This means that this part of the dish is where your dab needs to hit. This varies with some designs.

Any inert, evenly heated dish will give you the ideal flavor. However, the trick is in getting the perfect temp with a torch every time - a number of the contributing variables to torching to perfect temp are out of the users control and so this is a challenge - some nail designs are more helpful than others for this. Different quartz will be very different in how hard it is to get the perfect temp. When you do though, and especially when the temp dip after you dab is just right - you could very conceivably get a better tasting dab than an enail with the same nail.

I don't like torches because I want consistency and ease-of-use (I medicate bad and persisent insomnia and don't wanna wake up in the night and use a torch half asleep!) - sapphire e-nails give me that. They've also given me better hits than the best torch + expensive quartz dabs I've had - not everyone will be in a scenario where sapphire and SiC enails work though, I get it.

Yes, the above mention of different heat behavior on enail vs torch and nail has obvious implications for new e-nail designs re: what to do when a cap is applied!
Yup ... I just think to each their own. Quartz isn't going anywhere. Look at the frickin carb caps blowers are putting out now for qcb that people are paying upwards of a grand and more for ... they could get an entire enail setup with SiC, sapphire and quartz yet they choose analog (only reason I mention this is because you keep eluding to cost being the deciding factor). I agree e-nails are awesome at night as you get the entire cannabinoid content of a dab which can send me into couch mode if done too early in the day ... in step the super terpy low temp analog quartz dabs to uplift the spirits.

And ... back to e-nail discussion ☺
 
MileHighLife,

herbivore21

Well-Known Member
Yup ... I just think to each their own. Quartz isn't going anywhere. Look at the frickin carb caps blowers are putting out now for qcb that people are paying upwards of a grand and more for ... they could get an entire enail setup with SiC, sapphire and quartz yet they choose analog (only reason I mention this is because you keep eluding to cost being the deciding factor). I agree e-nails are awesome at night as you get the entire cannabinoid content of a dab which can send me into couch mode if done too early in the day ... in step the super terpy low temp analog quartz dabs to uplift the spirits.

And ... back to e-nail discussion ☺
lol it is so true that people spent just as much money or more on torch + nail setups. I can't actually fathom that, and I have buddies that own said nails lol. Still, different strokes and different folks and all that ;)

It seems our digression has been useful conversation anyway my friend - we had the opportunity to clarify that quartz with a torch can still be desirable in some contexts (I suppose as well not everyone has mains power wherever they go lol), but not on e-nails, where quartz was eclipsed by superior materials for that application :)
 

alittledabwilldoya'

Sapphire Powered Dabstronaut.
I don't have any torch experience (well, almost none).

But as far as enails go I have owned all the DNail Halos, and beta test for CCA.
The material of the dabbing surface makes a big difference.
I've found that it goes:

Sapphire
SiC
Quartz

This hierarchy is rigidly stratified.

@herbivore21 got me on the SiC train and lauded the benefits of his, at the time, beta DNail Sapphire Halo.
I wormed my way into the first publicly released Sapphire Halo drop and have not looked back.
The only time I'm not dabbing on sapphire is when I'm on the go, then SiC's durability and relatively inexpensive price tag can't be beat.

I truly think that if you dab, you need Sapphire.
It is simply that good.

:leaf:
 
alittledabwilldoya',
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MileHighLife

Blower of glass, grower of grass
I don't have any torch experience (well, almost none).

But as far as enails go I have owned all the DNail Halos, and beta test for CCA.
The material of the dabbing surface makes a big difference.
I've found that it goes:

Sapphire
SiC
Quartz

This hierarchy is rigidly stratified.

@herbivore21 got me on the SiC train and lauded the benefits of his, at the time, beta DNail Sapphire Halo.
I wormed my way into the first publicly released Sapphire Halo drop and have not looked back.
The only time I'm not dabbing on sapphire is when I'm on the go, then SiC's durability and relatively inexpensive price tag can't be beat.

I truly think that if you dab, you need Sapphire.
It is simply that good.

:leaf:
What's the reason for needing sapphire? I know it looks nice and sounds "baller" (lol) but the specs are eclipsed by those of SiC. It's more expensive because it takes longer to make but that doesn't necessarily make it better. To me it seems like an unnecessary item for people who leave stickers on hats. But again ... to each their own ;)

:peace:
 

herbivore21

Well-Known Member
What's the reason for needing sapphire? I know it looks nice and sounds "baller" (lol) but the specs are eclipsed by those of SiC. It's more expensive because it takes longer to make but that doesn't necessarily make it better. To me it seems like an unnecessary item for people who leave stickers on hats. But again ... to each their own ;)

:peace:
The taste of sapphire over SiC is night and day brother. It is better by a long shot. I am not interested in what is baller, and if I was, would have stuck with the more expensive quartz I was using years ago!

SiC is more robust but sapphire tastes infinitely better than SiC - while also getting the full vaporization that quartz lacks. If you can get sapphire on an enail, it is the best dab you will get, hands down IME. For reference, I have used almost all of the above and most of them as daily drivers at one time or another :2c:
 
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