The 2016 Presidential Candidates Thread

cybrguy

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
And that is the problem. The American Democracy is dependent on the consent of the governed. If an organized resistance really wants to destroy our Democracy they can. That is a risk built in to our system.

And an honest and vigorous defense of the system will likely be ridiculed as tyrannical malfeasance by he fake patriots of the tea party and their ilk with offers to "water the tree of liberty..." and other code word phrases for burning the house down. And who will stop them?

What has prevented this in the past was the two party system with strong organized and respected parties who understood all this and relied on their loyal and knowledgeable memberships to keep the wheels of democracy well greased and free of obstruction. That and a collegial manner of dealing across the aisle in a gentlemanly and cooperative manner, with the knowledge that they were all there to do the country's business and not doing it wasn't even a consideration.

Those parties today are badly damaged and eating themselves alive from the inside out. They barely talk to each other, and most of the people who were around when their houses actually worked are afraid to speak up and try and save the congress because they are sure they will just lose their jobs in the next election.

It is a terrible thing to behold, and it is hard to be anything but pessimistic.
 
Baron23

Baron23

Well-Known Member
cybrguy said:
And an honest and vigorous defense of the system will likely be ridiculed as tyrannical malfeasance by he fake patriots of the tea party and their ilk with offers to "water the tree of liberty..." and other code word phrases for burning the house down. And who will stop them?
Click to expand...

This is a true example of setting up your own straw man in order to knock it down.
 
cybrguy

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
I didn't even include "likely" when I first wrote it, because it isn't likely, it is certain. It has already happened multiple times. Witness any time Paul Ryan has suggested that the extremist stupidity of Donald Trump will destroy the party. How do the insurgents respond? "Kick Paul Ryan to the curb" they insist at the top of their lungs.

I don't know what you are watchin, but it doesn't seem to be what's happening.
 
CarolKing

CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
The offshoot of the Republican Party started soon after the first black president was elected. The Tea Party was born thanks to people like Donald Trump, Steve Bannon and Sarah Palin. The shock of it all - how could a black man be the president of our country, it was a wake up call to all the racists, haters and bigots of America. Donald Trump fulfills all their important wishes in a president.

It's really too bad the Republican Party didn't have a leader strong enough to show them the right way and not to follow down such a dark path as Trump.

Edit
@yogoshio The bailout happened st the end of the Bush Presidency. Pretty close in the time frame. Maybe a combination of the two.
Trump continued the lie that Obama was born in Kenya and the Tea Party folks ate it up.
People don't always realize when they are being manipulated.

Sorry to disagree with you but I watch the news too. I know what I saw and what I read. I saw the Tea Party react to the issue of Obama's citizenship. I heard all the hateful things that came out of their mouths,
 
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yogoshio

yogoshio

Annoying Libertarian
The Tea Party started under Bush. It was a revolt against the bank bailouts and excessive spending, not against a black guy. Can we please, please stop perpetuating that insane myth.

Sorry, but even the birther issue wasn't 'bought' by the tea party. It was bought by the Clinton campaign, many of her supporters, and then to keep themselves clean they the threw it their way because some idiots that happened to be in the tea party agreed, it was magically the entire group. They aren't the ones being manipulated.
 
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GetLeft

GetLeft

Well-Known Member
Gettin' scarey man...

"...We can also see this pattern in FiveThirtyEight’s national polling average. Clinton’s currently at 46.0 percent, which is her highest number on the year and up by 0.6 percentage points from a week ago, when she was at 45.4 percent just before the third presidential debate. Trump, meanwhile, is at 39.6 percent in national polls. That’s not a great number but is also improved — he was at 38.8 percent a week ago..."
 
CarolKing

CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
The polls are all over the place and seem to have a wide variable. It looks like they are tightening. It will be a nail biter from now until the election. I think it's good for democrats to stay scared. We don't want a false sense of security. The Trump factor is too real and a disaster.

The email trickle and the Obamacare raise in premiums has made me even more nervous the past couple of days.

Get out and vote people! Send your mail in ballots - make sure you date and sign them.

It sounds like the Trump brand is suffering from all the negative things he has said. They arent booking as many rooms in their hotels. Too bad.:evil:
 
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grokit

grokit

well-worn member
I predict that drumpf wins the popular vote, and killary wins the electoral college and presidency. Then the wounds of this horrible election will definitely fester. The best we can hope for is four more years of gridlock unless congress flips completely. I don't think they both will, but the senate is definitely a possibility.

Gridlock sucks, but it's better than the alternative: violence on the streets, martial law, curfews, and the end of what passes for our treasured "democracy" these days. So more gridlock, and more executive action will be coming our way; the drumfsters will be going nucking futs then the big imf financial crisis hits us.

Just search for "BRICS veto power IMF 2017".
The us dollar as the world's reserve currency is about done.
This is not breaking news in global financial circles.

:tinfoil::myday:
 
Silat

Silat

When the Facts Change, I Change My Mind.
cybrguy said:
I didn't even include "likely" when I first wrote it, because it isn't likely, it is certain. It has already happened multiple times. Witness any time Paul Ryan has suggested that the extremist stupidity of Donald Trump will destroy the party. How do the insurgents respond? "Kick Paul Ryan to the curb" they insist at the top of their lungs.

I don't know what you are watchin, but it doesn't seem to be what's happening.
Click to expand...

Well Ryan is being disingenuous. Drumpf and Ryan are spouting the same ideology.
 
Silat,
Silat

Silat

When the Facts Change, I Change My Mind.
yogoshio said:
The Tea Party started under Bush. It was a revolt against the bank bailouts and excessive spending, not against a black guy. Can we please, please stop perpetuating that insane myth.

Sorry, but even the birther issue wasn't 'bought' by the tea party. It was bought by the Clinton campaign, many of her supporters, and then to keep themselves clean they the threw it their way because some idiots that happened to be in the tea party agreed, it was magically the entire group. They aren't the ones being manipulated.
Click to expand...

I agree that we should stop perpetuating insane myths.

Actually bigotry. Rick Santelli, Paul, Armey and reich wing billionaires were the biggest part of the fake grassroots movement:
http://www.pensitoreview.com/2010/0...ovement-1974-pro-segregation-rally-in-boston/
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/matt-taibbi-on-the-tea-party-20100928

Birtherism. The bagger movement loved it:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...y-clinton-and-birther-movement-still-no-ther/
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Teabaggers+and+birtherism
 
Silat,
Tranquility

Tranquility

Well-Known Member
Silat said:
I agree that we should stop perpetuating insane myths.

Actually bigotry. Rick Santelli, Paul, Armey and reich wing billionaires were the biggest part of the fake grassroots movement:
http://www.pensitoreview.com/2010/0...ovement-1974-pro-segregation-rally-in-boston/
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/matt-taibbi-on-the-tea-party-20100928

Birtherism. The bagger movement loved it:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...y-clinton-and-birther-movement-still-no-ther/
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Teabaggers+and+birtherism
Click to expand...
"Teabagger" in the search and the headlines of some articles really convinces me about their lack of bias. Some who believe the "myths":
http://www.politico.com/blogs/ben-smith/2008/02/dressed-006481
(Speaking about the release of a picture of Obama and traditional garb.)
“On the very day that Senator Clinton is giving a speech about restoring respect for America in the world, her campaign has engaged in the most shameful, offensive fear-mongering we’ve seen from either party in this election. This is part of a disturbing pattern that led her county chairs to resign in Iowa, her campaign chairman to resign in New Hampshire, and it’s exactly the kind of divisive politics that turns away Americans of all parties and diminishes respect for America in the world," said Obama campaign manager David Plouffe.​
http://www.politico.com/story/2011/04/birtherism-where-it-all-began-053563
(Headline: Birtherism: Where it all began.)
The answer lies in Democratic, not Republican politics, and in the bitter, exhausting spring of 2008. At the time, the Democratic presidential primary was slipping away from Hillary Clinton and some of her most passionate supporters grasped for something, anything that would deal a final reversal to Barack Obama.
...​
http://www.factcheck.org/2015/07/was-hillary-clinton-the-original-birther/
According to the article, the theory that Obama was born in Kenya “first emerged in the spring of 2008, as Clinton supporters circulated an anonymous email questioning Obama’s citizenship.”

The second article, which ran several days after the Politico piece, was published by the Telegraph, a British paper, which stated: “An anonymous email circulated by supporters of Mrs Clinton, Mr Obama’s main rival for the party’s nomination, thrust a new allegation into the national spotlight — that he had not been born in Hawaii.”

Both of those stories comport with what we here at FactCheck.org wrote two-and-a-half years earlier, on Nov. 8, 2008: “This claim was first advanced by diehard Hillary Clinton supporters as her campaign for the party’s nomination faded, and has enjoyed a revival among John McCain’s partisans as he fell substantially behind Obama in public opinion polls.”​
http://www.snopes.com/hillary-clinton-started-birther-movement/
(To be fair, she didn't "start" the rumor.)
The conspiracy theory was already fully formed at this point. Clearly, the Clinton supporters accused of spreading it via forwarded e-mails knew "good ammo" when they saw it, but, as the above posts show, they deserve neither credit nor blame for the invention of birtherism.​
 
CarolKing

CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
@OldNewbie the Tea Bagger aren't biased? Is that what you are telling us. What you see at the Trump rallies are the Tea Bagger folks.

I can actually listen to Trump but at this point, I realize Trump is a flawed candidate and ignorant of many of the issues. I can actually laugh at some of the things Trump says. Mike Pence is so into his own world that I can't even listen to him. He's trying to convince himself that he's doing the right thing. I feel like I'm being lectured by a minster. Pence and Trump are complet opposites.

I just listened to Representative Trent Franks - he's drinking the same koolade as the Tea Party folks.

You have just one vote for a president and it can change the whole outcome of a country.

I know some folks can't imagine a Hillary presidency but I can't fathom this country if Trump is our president. I hope more negative stuff comes out about Trump.

Edit
I think continuing to talk about Obama being from Kenya is one racist or i should say a bigoted statement and that he needs to move back there. (Sorry if I'm not using my dictionary) I never saw any people of color either at their rallies. You have your opinion @OldNewbie and I have mine. It's ok we are going to disagree. You vote for whoever you believe in that best fits your values and who can actually win. It's a limited choice.

I figure if Hillary is impeached at least we will have Tim Kaine - so it won't be a bust.

The Supreme Court is an important factor in all this. A few members are getting pretty old.

The negativity in this presidential race has hurt the mood of the American people. I feel like we are always dealing with a presidential election. The campaign is too long IMO:bang:
 
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Tranquility

Tranquility

Well-Known Member
CarolKing said:
@OldNewbie the Tea Bagger aren't biased? Is that what you are telling us. What you see at the Trump rallies are the Tea Bagger folks.

I can actually listen to Trump but at this point, I realize Trump is a flawed candidate and ignorant of many of the issues. Mike Pence is so into his own world that I can't even listen to him. He's trying to convince himself that he's doing the right thing. I feel like I'm being lectured by a minster. Pence and Trump are complet opposites.

I just listened to Representative Trent Franks - he's drinking the same koolade as the Tea Party folks.

You have just one vote for a president and it can change the whole outcome of a country.
Click to expand...
The term "Tea Bagger" is intentionally pejorative and nothing more than an attempt at rule 5. The Tea Party was/is a movement for a limited constitutional government. Calling them racist is interesting. What is YOUR definition of the type of racism that would allow us to call another a racist?

The black man who tried to make the following the law in my state was vilified as a racist:

(a) The state shall not discriminate against, or grant preferential treatment to, any individual or group on the basis of race, sex, color, ethnicity, or national origin in the operation of public employment, public education, or public contracting.
​
The key issue was "or grant preferential treatment" as the non-racists who wanted to keep focus on race felt it would eliminate affirmative action and other preferential treatment based on race. They were correct. Is he a racist?
 
Tranquility

Tranquility

Well-Known Member
RUDE BOY said:
What is rule 5? and what are the rules?

(serious question 'cause I don't have a clue what rule 5 is)
Click to expand...
Alinsky's Rules for radicals:
Always remember the first rule of power tactics: Power is not only what you have but what the enemy thinks you have.

The second rule is: Never go outside the experience of your people. When an action is outside the experience of the people, the result is confusion, fear, and retreat.

The third rule is: Wherever possible go outside the experience of the enemy. Here you want to cause confusion, fear, and retreat.

The fourth rule is: Make the enemy live up to their own book of rules. You can kill them with this, for they can no more obey their own rules than the Christian church can live up to Christianity.

The fourth rule carries within it the fifth rule: Ridicule is man's most potent weapon. It is almost impossible to counterattack ridicule. Also it infuriates the opposition, who then react to your advantage.

The sixth rule is: A good tactic is one that your people enjoy. If your people are not having a ball doing it, there is something very wrong with the tactic.

The seventh rule: A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag. Man can sustain militant interest in any issue for only a limited time, after which it becomes a ritualistic commitment, like going to church on Sunday mornings.

The eighth rule: Keep the pressure on, with different tactics and actions, and utilize all events of the period for your purpose.

The ninth rule: The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself.

The tenth rule: The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition. It is this unceasing pressure that results in the reactions from the opposition that are essential for the success of the campaign.

The eleventh rule is: If you push a negative hard and deep enough it will break through into its counterside; this is based on the principle that every positive has its negative.

The twelfth rule: The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative. You cannot risk being trapped by the enemy in his sudden agreement with your demand and saying "You're right — we don't know what to do about this issue. Now you tell us."

The thirteenth rule: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.​
 
His_Highness

His_Highness

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king
Oh Bernie....where art thou.......

It's not all about racism and democratic ideals versus republican ideals. Many Trump followers are wallowing in the excuse of "Shit ain't workin so let's demolish it and start over". With the animosity and grid-lock we've seen over Obama's presidency it is hardly a surprise. Their is enough reality in that view to give many something to grab hold to when they look in a mirror and vote for what they perceive as best for "their" wallet and life. The choice of "the same but better" causes these folks to think "oh sure...that'll work FOR ME...again".

I don't have to agree with the above but I'd be kidding myself if I didn't see the reason why the above makes it easy to ignore all of Trump's open sores. They don't want Trump....they want a do-over.

Electoral CNN Poll Updated This Morning:
With the new changes to the CNN electoral outlook, our current snapshot has Clinton at 272 electoral votes from states either solidly or leaning in her direction. Trump has a total of 179 electoral votes from the states either solidly or leaning in his direction. That leaves 87 electoral votes currently up for grabs in the remaining battleground states. GO HRC!

A few pages back I mentioned my concern that the wiki-leaker might release the zingers a week or so before November 8th to limit the pivot and rebuttal.... and that these leaks while simultaneously muzzling Trump could cause the HRC ship to take on water.......anyone got a bucket? I heard several pundits agreeing that the increase in leaks is affecting HRC. I still believe HRC's commanding lead can hold as long as Wiki isn't holding the best for last.

The good news is that the early voters were voting when Trump was having his worst time removing his shoe from his mouth and the HRC coffers are full so as we get closer to the election she can outspend him big time.
 
Snappo

Snappo

Caveat Emptor - "A Billion People Can Be Wrong!"
Accessory Maker
Mailed my voter mail in ballot yesterday, then realized that I didn't write in the date under my signature on the sealed envelope. telephoned the Elections Department Branch Office this morning and expressed my concern as to whether or not my mail in ballot was now considered invalid due to not wring in the date. The agent I spoke with said it was not a problem and that failing to enter the date would have no validity effect. Can someone here on this thread verify this for me - I tend to believe that some working folks at the other end of a phone line would just rather dismiss one's concerns and say everything's rosy rather than make a little extra effort to dig for an accurate answer. Thanks!
 
Tranquility

Tranquility

Well-Known Member
His_Highness said:
A few pages back I mentioned my concern that the wiki-leaker might release the zingers a week or so before November 8th to limit the pivot and rebuttal.... and that these leaks while simultaneously muzzling Trump could cause the HRC ship to take on water.......anyone got a bucket? I heard several pundits agreeing that the increase in leaks is affecting HRC. I still believe HRC's commanding lead can hold as long as Wiki isn't holding the best for last.
Click to expand...
I think the ACA costs will be the big October surprise and not wikileaks.

Wikileaks may be an anchor around the neck of a Clinton administration as there is too much that really stinks, from a legal perspective, to just ignore. Someone, somewhere is going to take all the information out there and try to link the rest of the story to what was claimed at the time and see if anything shakes out.

At some nebulous future time, it/they may be important.

Today people are looking at trying to afford insurance with the huge announced raises. I can't believe the reality of choosing between weekend beer (weekend bud?!) or medical insurance is going to affect more votes than a complex set of partially known facts. For wikileaks to move the needle before the election, there must something that comes out that can be completely understood without a lot of other facts that need to be brought in. To be effective, one of the leaks must be easily changed to a "narrative" that can penetrate the media wall.

Snappo said:
Mailed my voter mail in ballot yesterday, then realized that I didn't write in the date under my signature on the sealed envelope. telephoned the Elections Department Branch Office this morning and expressed my concern as to whether or not my mail in ballot was now considered invalid due to not wring in the date. The agent I spoke with said it was not a problem and that failing to enter the date would have no validity effect. Can someone here on this thread verify this for me - I tend to believe that some working folks at the other end of a phone line would just rather dismiss one's concerns and say everything's rosy rather than make a little extra effort to dig for an accurate answer. Thanks!
Click to expand...
State and local laws generally guide elections. Without knowing both, it is impossible to tell. (State especially.) In my state, your main remedy to make sure your vote counts would be to go to the polls and make a provisional ballot.

http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/add...and-resources/voting-law-compliance-handbook/

I applied for my vote-by-mail ballot on a form I got in the mail from one of the campaigns. The day before the election, the campaign called and said the county elections office hadn't received my vote-by-mail ballot and that I had better go to the polls to vote in person instead. I mailed my ballot three days earlier. What if it arrives tomorrow and I vote in person, too? Won't I be guilty of voting twice?

It is against the law to intentionally vote or try to vote both by mail and in person. If you received and mailed back a vote-by-mail ballot, but are concerned it won’t be received by your county elections official within three days after Election Day, you may go to the polls and vote by provisional ballot. If your vote-by-mail ballot does arrive at the county elections office in time, it will be counted and your provisional ballot will be voided. (Elections Code sections 18500, 18560) Ballot reconciliation is a routine part of the official vote counting canvass that happens after the election.​
 
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M

Msek

Well-Known Member
Scott Adams Coffee has whipsawed from here to there, over the course of the election, endorsing different candidates. To up audience numbers? A streaming dialog for times when you desire to reduce the ramping shrillness leading up to V-day;>) but still masochistic enough for some election stuff.

 
Msek,
His_Highness

His_Highness

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king
OldNewbie said:
I think the ACA costs will be the big October surprise and not wikileaks.

Today people are looking at trying to afford insurance with the huge announced raises. I can't believe the reality of choosing between weekend beer (weekend bud?!) or medical insurance is going to affect more votes than a complex set of partially known facts.
Click to expand...

Not so sure about this one....I've had a sore spot for Obamacare since inception (I know that won't surprise anyone who frequents this thread) but IMHO......the news about the premiums and deductibles is already baked in. If you've been tracking the ACA debacle the new, news .... isn't new. Could be another example of selective perception on my part but the only thing that surprised me was that anyone would be surprised by the recent announcements.
 
grokit

grokit

well-worn member
yogoshio said:
The Tea Party started under Bush.
Click to expand...
Democrats-VS-Republicans.jpg


Getting back to where all this "violent polarity" between the two parties started, I think it was before the bush/clinton cartels took over. It was king nixon, our first modern gangster president and his merry band of watergate plumbers that started the show, in reaction to the democrats daring to impeach him for his crimes against our democracy. Then the real bs started, with the watergate trials and impeachment proceedings.

The grand old party has been getting even with the donkeys across the isle, and america itself, ever since.

:myday:
 
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Tranquility

Tranquility

Well-Known Member
steama said:
This is old stuff in America. There have been some form of rightwing 'tea party conservatives' since at least the civil war only under different names. Here are a few; The Anti-Masonic Party, Nativism, American Protective Association, The Second Ku Klux Klan, McCarthyism, John Birch Society, American Independent Party, Constitutional militia and patriot movements, Paleoconservatism, Counterjihad, Minuteman Project and the Tea Party. They can also be referred to as the regressive right where the mantle they operate from is usually NO (except for military spending) including rants regarding the second amendment. I agree the bank bailout is the primary cause for the current modern outbreak of tea party politics, but it has always been with us in some form.
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Quite a list of deplorables.

What is/are the unifying feature(s)? (Not a general indictment that could apply to anyone.)

My understanding is a Tea Party member, at his core, is for limited Constitutional government. (Which includes free markets and fiscal responsibility. It was Bush's wild spending without taxation that vastly increased the debt that made the Tea Party.) I know there are many flavors of "Tea Party" like express, patriots and .org and they seem to disagree at times as they are not a single organization but many grass roots organizations. The power brokers have tried to gain control over them and have had some success. But, it is not really a "party" in that there is a top-down organization that can speak for the members.
 
grokit

grokit

well-worn member
Coca-Cola's Intimate Ties to Hillary Clinton
(aka big sugar corruption)

DC Leaks recently disseminated a hoard of hacked correspondence, and in that midst is evidence showing just how intimate of a relationship Coca-Cola has with presidential candidate Hillary Clinton's camp. As reported by Politico, earlier this year Clinton endorsed Philadelphia Mayor Jim Kenney's proposal for a soda tax to help pay for universal preschool. Her public endorsement sent Coca-Cola into damage control mode, and for that, they turned to two key Clinton representatives:

"Coca-Cola executive Clyde Tuggle emailed to two Clinton associates, Capricia Marshall and Sara Latham … writing: 'Really??? After all we have done. I hope this has been falsely reported' … The ensuing email correspondence between Coca-Cola officials and campaign insiders reveals the deep connections the soda giant enjoys in Hillary-land at multiple levels, which the company leaned on to urge Clinton to walk back her support for soda taxes last April."

As noted by The Russels: "If there is any doubt that Coca-Cola's generous donations come with strings attached, Tuggle's email should erase all doubt. When Coke opens its coffers, it expects reciprocity." At the end of the day, Coca-Cola's insiders staved off yet another threat, assuring the company that taxing soda was not actually part of Clinton's policy agenda, and that she would not pursue the matter any further. Indeed, ever since then, Clinton has stayed mum on the issue of soda taxes.

Coke and Clinton Are Longtime Bedfellows

I recently wrote about how first lady Michelle Obama's organic food campaign was undermined and turned into an anti-obesity campaign focused on exercise with little attention given to diet, and here we find evidence suggesting the junk food industry is directing Clinton in a very similar manner.

Granted, Clinton has a long history with Coca-Cola, with the Clinton Foundation having received upwards of $10 million from the company. Coca-Cola marketing executive Wendy Clark also took a four-month sabbatical from her corporate position to aid Mrs. Clinton's campaign.

What the leaked emails reveal, however, are the undisclosed ties and behind-the-scenes coordination occurring between the two parties. Correspondence leaked by Wikileaks also shows Coca-Cola chairman and CEO Muhtar Kent was even on her list as a potential running mate. Just imagine the influence the sugar and soda industries would have with a Coca-Cola CEO as Vice President of the U.S.!

As reported by Newsweek:

"[T]his round of leaked emails from campaign chairman Podesta contains a lengthy list of 'first cut' picks compiled by Podesta and other top Clinton advisers … [A]mong the business leaders considered by the Clinton camp Gates's wife, Melinda Gates … Mary Barra, CEO of General Motors; Ursula Burns, CEO of Xerox; Muhtar Kent, CEO of Coca-Cola … Howard Schultz, CEO of Starbucks …"

much more...
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2016/10/26/soda-sugar-public-health.aspx

:myday:
 
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