The 2016 Presidential Candidates Thread

lwien said:

Uh.............yeah, it's called "preparing for a debate".

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No no no, now you know to the right wing wackos foresight and preparation= Rigging the election.


Edit; It's kinda funny and sad that many trump supporters seem to believe the emails on wikileaks are actually those deleted from Hillery's server when None are actually from or even addressed to her.

From the only nation to jail their crooked bankers/leaders

Iceland Proves Third Parties Have Legitimate and Crucial Role in Democracy



The progressive island nation of Iceland is on the verge of ‘re-booting’ Western democracy and of proving third parties have a legitimate and important role to play in maintaining the balance of power between people and their leadership.

In response to overwhelming government corruption in Iceland, the Pirate Party is now leading in polls coming into national elections, threatening to install a new type of political party, one based on direct democracy, using technology to amplify the voices of citizens in opposition to entrenched corporate and political powers.

“Its members are a collection of anarchists, hackers, libertarians and Web geeks. It sets policy through online polls — and thinks the government should do the same. It wants to make Iceland “a Switzerland of bits,” free of digital snooping. It has offered Edward Snowden a new place to call home.” [Source]

If they win, this would be another clear signal that European citizens are rejecting mainstream politics, and are willing to update an aging political system to prevent people from become slaves to banks and politicians.

“The distrust that had long been germinating has now exploded. The Pirates are riding on that wave. We’ve had new parties before, and then they’ve faded. What’s surprising is that they’re maintaining their momentum.” ~Ragnheithur Kristjánsdóttir, political history professor at the University of Iceland.

The United States Persecutes Third Parties
In the U.S., however, third parties are persecuted by the Federal Election Commission, by law enforcement, and by the corporate media who all work in tandem to ensure that alternative candidates are absent from political debates, are treated as criminal elements and dissenters, and that the mere notion of voting outside of the two-party system is viewed as socially irresponsible.

The strategy of divide and conquer is as clear as day in America, and as people are pigeon-holed into the liberal vs. democrat thought boxes, the Republican and Democrat parties are free to move forward with near identical policies, offering nothing new for the American people.

Third party philosophies are permitted to exist only as offshoots of the main parties, such as the efforts by Ron Paul and Bernie Sanders who both offered platforms vastly different from the neocon, private-banking imperialism pitched by mainstream candidates.

Final Thoughts
Third party politics is the last stand of world democracy, and as Iceland is about to prove, if people can organize around new ideals which resonate with the population, then they can be elevated and brought into power, if only the establishment system permits their participation. In the U.S. third parties are strictly prohibited.

Pirate Party representative Birgitta Jónsdóttir is proving that not is a re-boot of Western democracy popular, but that it is also possible, saying, “People want real changes and they understand that we have to change the systems, we have to modernize how we make laws.”

Iceland has become a beacon of hope and freedom in recent years by refusing to allow corrupt bankers to take over their nation, even prosecuting some bankers and sending them to jail for breaking the law. Why shouldn’t America be able to do the same?

READ: From Start to Finish Entire U.S. Presidential Election is Fake

^^^ That's interesting but I really can't see how what happens in Iceland pertains in anyway to politics in the USA.

The bumfuck county I live in has a larger population then Iceland.

Hey, it may be an interesting experiment. If 10 years from now they are still glad they did it than maybe it will be something to recommend to other nations. In the mean time, I am very glad it is them and not us...

Lets keep in mind they have a population similar to a medium sized city in the US. Under 400K.

Apples and oranges...

RUDE BOY said:

^^^ That's interesting but I really can't see how what happens in Iceland pertains in anyway to politics in the USA.

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It's the difference between an actual democracy, and whateverdafuk we have going here

So, where is that working "actual democracy" you want us to emulate? You wouldn't be suggesting something that has been rarely tried and has never succeeded, would you?

With +/- 320 Million people? I'll pass, thanks.

Well it's certainly not working out very well here, hence drumpf.

His candidacy isn't all about racism, even if the msm would like us to believe it is.

Would a Drumpf Win or a Foreign Invasion Be Worse?

"He" doesn't matter now: the Republican party has been setting frankly abysmal standards for candidates in recent years, and either Karl Rove or Grover Norquist semi-famously said they weren't looking for a leader, just someone who could and would sign his name on the laws they handed him.

Shorter: the "Republican"/"Conservative"/"patriot" party wants a stooge president who will obediently sign what he's told to sign, and damn the rest. This is WHY the bar is set so low - and why they haven't achieved it: such obvious pandering and toadying are in fact disgusting to the greater part of the citizens, and have accomplished nothing for the party. The Republican party is bleeding support as Trump's revolting spectacle grinds ever closer to a halt: even the most corrupt can turn a blind eye only so long....I think we are seeing a both a swell of support for Clinton vis Trump, and a painful self-examination on the part of those who thought a nouveau-riche buffoon and faker like Trump would succeed where RMoney failed...but then again, these are the people who thought Dan Quayle would be a perfect draw for "the female vote"....

I really don't know what it will take for people to realize that whatever problems the Democrats have (and they have an effing raft of 'em - I could give you a list), they're nothing to the clueless imposition of the usual sales-pitch for wealth and power that is the constant drum-beat of the so-called 'right'

lwien said:

Ok, just for fun, can ya just make something up that you think Wiki could possibly come up with, regardless how outrageous it could be, that would change the the trajectory over the next 12 days?

I'll come up with one. Hillary is secretly, one of Al-Baghdadi's wives. Now THAT could possibly change things.

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man, are you CRAZY??? That's how we got INTO this mess....

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Iceland has become a beacon of hope and freedom in recent years by refusing to allow corrupt bankers to take over their nation, even prosecuting some bankers and sending them to jail for breaking the law. Why shouldn’t America be able to do the same?

Lots of reasons. for one, Iceland doesn't have our multi-century history of industrial racism and our innate certainty that we're better than everyone else.

For another, Iceland didn't present sexy enough resource monopolies when the Younger Sons went traveling the earth, so they kept moving. Oil, sugar, slaves, timber, hemp, cotton, beef, furs, mining - the Younger Sons have done just fine for themselves, and continue to sit at the pinnacle of USA's oldest, wealthiest and most powerful families...to whom the Waltons and Icahns and Trumps of the world are the new kids.

For a third, Iceland never had our waves of immigrants, and so it's less settled, less 'citified', less "layered" and without the social and political complications that arise from the constant challenge that immigrants always present.

At least, that's what I can see from here...

Donald Trump at Gettysburg, with malice towards many
10/24/16 08:00 AM

By Steve Benen
At a North Carolina on Friday, Donald Trump conceded that he likes to ignore good advice from his campaign aides. “I like to deny things,” the Republican presidential hopeful said. “Like, I like to deny – because – but they say, ‘Oh, talk about jobs.’ But these [ads from Hillary Clinton’s campaign] are so false. All of these things, they’re so false. They’re such lies.”

The GOP nominee could talk about important issues, but Trump wants voters to know he prefers to talk about campaign commercials he doesn’t like. He’s one of those very rare candidates who not only avoids discussing job creation, but openly acknowledges that he’d rather focus on something he finds more interesting: TV ads.

Trump just can’t get out of his own way. The problem was even clearer a day later in Pennsylvania.

In theory, the point of Trump’s speech was a perfectly sound idea: the address was supposed to focus on the policies he intended to pursue in his first 100 days in office. As a campaign strategy, it makes a lot of sense for Trump and his team to look forward and focus as much attention as possible on the kind of measures the Republican would prioritize if elected.

And while he did eventually get around to sharing some bad ideas – Trump seems to be quite excited about term limits all of a sudden, despite his previous opposition to the idea – the GOP nominee also stepped all over his own message. After talking at length about how “rigged” the election is, he vowed, in reference to the women who’ve accused him of sexual misconduct, “All of these liars will be sued after the election is over.”

Or put another way, the first 100 days in a Trump administration would be … litigious.

There’s every reason to believe these lawsuits will never actually happen. Trump talked about suing the New York Times, too, but his lawyers no doubt explained that such a case would be pointless, and targeting his accusers would be equally misguided.

But Trump revels in his grievances, even when it doesn’t make sense, even when his self-pity undermines his own presidential campaign.

“I like to deny things” will be a fitting epitaph for Trump’s political obituary.

This explains so much....

https://www.theguardian.com/science...time-lies-may-desensitise-brain-to-dishonesty

We have almost all the weapons in the world but none of the wisdom. In defiance of our own laws, we have positioned ourselves to be sparta, to western civilization's greece. Then it's natural to act out our global preemptive invasive warfare fantasies, enabled by a crooked media and predatory banking system. We diss wikileaks information without disputing the truths within them, to our own detriment. No matter who wins this farce of an election, we are are a criminal nation and will deserve our pending chinese/un invasion.

All hail the new world order!

grokit said:

We have almost all the weapons in the world but none of the wisdom. In defiance of our own laws, we have positioned ourselves to be sparta, to western civilization's greece. Then it's natural to act out our global preemptive invasive warfare fantasies, enabled by a crooked media and predatory banking system. We diss wikileaks information without disputing the truths within them, to our own detriment. No matter who wins this farce of an election, we are are a criminal nation and will deserve our pending chinese/un invasion.

All hail the new world order!

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I kinda agree but .... you're post is as strong as a shot of 150 rum and I'm feeling the reality is it's more of a Pina Colada level situation.

Geez.....this election is driving me to drink!

Trump puts press freedoms in his crosshairs
10/24/16 12:54 PM

By Steve Benen
Throughout American history, presidents and presidential candidates have complained about the press. It’s effectively part of the process: news organizations, responsible for holding public officials responsible, invariably draw criticisms from those they cover. It’s an inescapable part of an adversarial process.

But Donald Trump’s approach to democratic norms and institutions tends to be, shall we say, unique, and this certainly applies to the First Amendment’s free-press protections. Consider this exchange yesterday between Jim DeFede at the CBS affiliate in Miami and the Republican presidential candidate.

As the transcript excerpt shows, Trump went on to further tout the benefits of a British system, in which the First Amendment does not exist.

It’s worth noting, of course, that the U.S. system already has libel laws and Americans can already sue for “actual malice.” Trump should probably be aware of this – because his friends at the National Enquirer and other tabloids have faced lawsuits along these lines before.

Nevertheless, the Republican presidential hopeful apparently sees these laws as inadequate and wants to “go to a system” that makes it easier to target news organizations.

And that’s just part of a broader series of changes Trump has in mind when it comes to American journalism.

The GOP nominee also spoke over the weekend about breaking up Comcast/NBC Universal – MSNBC’s parent company – which he accused of “trying to poison the mind of the American voter.”

Trump has also threatened to sue the New York Times, suggested he’d target Washington Post owner Jeff Bezos, and pulled the credentials of outlets whose campaign coverage he disapproved of.

Again, the fact that a would-be president often butts heads with major news organizations is about as common as the sunrise, but Donald Trump isn’t just unhappy with coverage he considers unfair. The Republican nominee has now expressed support for changing the nature of press freedoms in the United States.

There’s been a lot of talk of late about Trump’s hostility towards democratic norms and American political institutions, and with good cause. The GOP candidate talks regularly and openly about imprisoning his opponents, his affinity for authoritarian regimes abroad, and his willingness to question the legitimacy of the U.S. elections process.

But let’s not forget that Trump’s attitudes towards a free press clearly belong on the same list.

The Wikileaks's BS is pure and simple manipulation and it's pretty obvious who "they" want as our next president. Can you imagine what some of Donald Trump's email might look like or the RNC? This information regarding Hillary was found by illegal means. We don't even know if it's correct.

People are tired and at this point most Americans have decided who they are voting for. Most things taken out of context always looks worse. Most folks want to half way feel good about who they are voting for and have tuned some of the Widileaks info out. Kinda like the Trump supporters I guess regarding his bad conduct. It's a sad situation that the voter is in. Sometimes you need to make lemonade out of lemons.

Edit
Trump loved the polls when he was ahead. Now that he's losing he's saying they aren't right. He is such a whiner

On twitter: How about Trump trashing the Iraq military's clearing Mosul of ISIS terrorists. Who talks like that? He has no idea about anything. He shouldn't be saying anything about it except for wishing them success. What a moron. Also the reason why the U,S announce what they are going to do a head of time is because they want the people to leave so there are less casualties.

His_Highness said:

Geez.....this election is driving me to drink!

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No shit. New CNN poll has the gap narrowing with Clinton now ahead by 5 instead of 12.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/24/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-presidential-polls/

This is like watching the stock market.

CarolKing said:

The Wikileaks's BS is pure and simple manipulation and it's pretty obvious who "they" want as our next president. Can you imagine what some of Donald Trump's email might look like or the RNC? This information regarding Hillary was found by illegal means. We don't even know if it's correct.

People are tired and at this point most Americans have decided who they are voting for. Most things taken out of context always looks worse. Most folks want to half way feel good about who they are voting for and have tuned some of the Widileaks info out. Kinda like the Trump supporters I guess regarding his bad conduct. It's a sad situation that the voter is in. Sometime you need to make lemonade out of lemons.

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The information contained in these leaks describes more illegality than the whistle-blowing means of discovering and publishing them could ever dream of being. This is information wars pure and simple; no I'm not a fan of that guy, but many drumpf voters obviously are. Q: Why not focus on discrediting the message, rather than the messenger? A: Because an obviously flawed messenger is much easier to discredit.

Sokay. I look forward to Assange, Manning, and Snowden in adjoining cells...

At this point......I don't particularly care where the 'truth' comes from as long as it's 'actionable'. To be actionable a charge must be levied and the burden of proof must be met....otherwise I'm not buying in anymore. As @CarolKing implied...the people are tired and I'm finding that I am a member.

I'm definitely not a HRC fanboy although I will be voting for her. I finally reached the point where the leaks strike me as persecution.... until one becomes prosecution.

Kill it or cure it.........

Trump wants to change the constitution. WTF?

Donald Trump suggested in an interview Sunday that America's protections for the press might go too far and that the country's libel and slander laws would be better if they were changed to resemble the United Kingdom's.

If Trump gets his crowds too riled up against the media, they will decide not to televise them. Trump has gotten way more media coverage than Hillary Clinton. The media is basically just televising Trump and what he's saying and the crazy idiots at his rally's. Nobody needs to make anything up.

At this point I give up on this election.

Throughout this whole election all I've learned is that logic doesn't matter, intelligence doesn't matter, and facts most definitely do not matter.

It doesn't matter who wins this election because America already lost.

cybrguy said:

Sokay. I look forward to Assange, Manning, and Snowden in adjoining cells...

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But they're outing obviously illegal behavior; what about our whistle-blower protection laws?
Oh yeah... they're gone gone because we're still in a "state of emergency", so no rules anymore.

All I can say is that Jefferson, and Lincoln both warned us about this.

“I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies.”

“I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country... corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed.”

Let us not forget the reich wing billionaires and their long game to transform the USA into a selfish society with no government interference.

I am no lover of the cults of religion but the K0CHs have been buying influence at public Universities and private education centers. They want to re-educate the frontal lobe deprived youth into libertarian bots.

KOCHS go after the Catholics (Education)
This is a rare moment when I am in full support of the poop over the K0CHsuckers.
http://prospect.org/article/koch-brothers’-latest-target-pope-francis

"Koch Brothers’ Latest Target: Pope Francis
Better known for their high-dollar political spending, the billionaire Koch brothers have also poured millions into Catholic University’s business school to promote a free-market orthodoxy sharply at odds with the teachings of Pope Francis."

jay87 said:

It doesn't matter who wins this election....

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It sure as hell matters to me !!!!

grokit said:

But they're outing obviously illegal behavior; what about our whistle-blower protection laws?
Oh yeah... they're gone gone because we're still in a "state of emergency", so no rules anymore.

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If you want to avail yourself of whistle blower protections, you have to do it from here. You can't run away to Russia and try and use them from there. Take your stand with it's risks.

Snowden is not a whistle blower. He is a traitor and has cost lives and seriously damaged diplomatic efforts of the US all over the world. I have zero sympathy for him.