• Do NOT click on any vaporpedia.com links. The domain has been compromised and will attempt to infect your system. See https://fuckcombustion.com/threads/warning-vaporpedia-com-has-been-compromised.54960/.

Tek DHO?

tepictoton

Well-Known Member
So...

Any input is welcome. Anybody had the chance to try the final product? Any test results known?

Seems like it might have a lot going for it being both polar and a-polar. Am I wrong in assuming we can get a wider spectrum of the plants medicinal goodies in our extract by using this in stead of butane?

How about purging?
 
tepictoton,

Monsoon

Well-Known Member
I did a search on it since I hadn't heard of it recently and most of the hits are from 2014 when it first came out. Shunkpharm who's well respected in the extraction community came out against it due to safety concerns and the company selling/marketing it was kind of sketchy.
 
Monsoon,

tepictoton

Well-Known Member
I read about that too, but if I read it correctly the concerns where about a flame retardant being added. That company has gone out of business, now in Spain bottles of 99:99% pure DME can be bought.
 
tepictoton,

tepictoton

Well-Known Member
Hmm

@DieHard any specific data you have to enlighten us a bit more?

I mean, I did my homework before starting this thread and all I can find is that this 0.01% might be no more then water?

If you have prove of it being otherwise then please tell us about it...

Again, yes, some time ago a shady company decided to cut their product with a flame retardant leading to claims of it being a hazard to our health.

But this does not apply to this thread, I am trying to see if there is anything we can learn about potentially using this solvent in stead of butane.

If you do not like solvent based extracts then maybe you should just forget about this thread?

And yes, if these claims can be backed up with data I will be more then happy to move on and forget about DME...
 

DieHard

Accessory supplier
Accessory Maker
Hmm

@DieHard any specific data you have to enlighten us a bit more?

I mean, I did my homework before starting this thread and all I can find is that this 0.01% might be no more then water?

If you have prove of it being otherwise then please tell us about it...

Again, yes, some time ago a shady company decided to cut their product with a flame retardant leading to claims of it being a hazard to our health.

But this does not apply to this thread, I am trying to see if there is anything we can learn about potentially using this solvent in stead of butane.

If you do not like solvent based extracts then maybe you should just forget about this thread?

And yes, if these claims can be backed up with data I will be more then happy to move on and forget about DME...
No real science, just a bit of snark... And for that matter the butane I have used probably has the same +\- .01%. I just get nervous when I see a new solvent extracted med out there. There are so many unscrupulous people out there with no regard for health. Just trying to make a quick buck. Maybe @herbivore22 can bring some science in here.
 

tepictoton

Well-Known Member
I feel you in that one...

So... DME seems to have been around for a very long time, not really new, just new to our 'niche'

Still it seems it might offer some definite benefits, yet for sure this will bring downsides with it as well... Just trying to figure them out.

Lets see if more seasoned extractors feel like chiming in... @herbivore21 might have a clue or know someone that can shed more light on this?
 
tepictoton,

Bad Ocelot

Well-Known Member
Interesting. I've been wondering lately about solvents aside from butane, EtOH, & isopropanol. Haven't had time to delve all that deeply into it, but dimethyl ether seems to have potential. Very curious to hear the thoughts of those more knowledgeable on this subject than myself. I'd also pondered n-butanol & tert-amyl alcohol. I'm not sure if these would confer any advantage over commonly used solvents though.
 
Bad Ocelot,

StickyShisha2

Well-Known Member
Interesting. I've been wondering lately about solvents aside from butane, EtOH, & isopropanol. Haven't had time to delve all that deeply into it, but dimethyl ether seems to have potential. Very curious to hear the thoughts of those more knowledgeable on this subject than myself. I'd also pondered n-butanol & tert-amyl alcohol. I'm not sure if these would confer any advantage over commonly used solvents though.
Hexane and Propane extractions are out there too, but i trust my moonshine extractions more
 

Bad Ocelot

Well-Known Member
I've seen a couple things about hexane, not propane though, that's interesting. I'd imagine propane has basically the same issues as butane. Reagent grade hexane, however, seems pretty good.
 
Bad Ocelot,

Joel W.

Deplorable Basement Dweller
Accessory Maker
Seems like it might have a lot going for it being both polar and a-polar. Am I wrong in assuming we can get a wider spectrum of the plants medicinal goodies in our extract

Check out the rosin tech thread. A good vise or a press does not care about polarity, at all..

No dangerous solvents. No purge needed. No worries.

Full spectrum dabs on demand.
 
Last edited:

tepictoton

Well-Known Member
Thank you for the tip, I already have my setup for rosin a well.

Just curious, and a little bit of an alchemist inside of me always wants to learn about and often try new things.

I know solvents are a bit frowned upon ever since rosin appeared... but for myself, I am just a curious person that likes to thinker and dabble jiji
 

DrRishi

Well-Known Member
I have been doing a bit of research about Dimethyl Ether (DME) here in Europe. Most of the well respected headshops are now selling DME under the name Dexso as the greatest thing since sliced bread.

It's not science but these are the claims being made:
- Non Toxic.
- 99.99% pure and free of additives.
- The explosion point of D.M.E. is much higher than the explosion point of petroleum based solvents, like butane. It is of course still very flammable!
- High efficiency. Need about the half of the amount of butane for the same extraction.
- Evaporation point of Dimethyl Ether is much lower than that of butane.
- Higher yield with more of the terps preserved.

Even the Germans are enthusiastic!

Does anyone have any more info. I think I am going to give it a try. Can't be worse than using lighter fluid (or can it?).
 

herbivore21

Well-Known Member
Oh shit I only just saw myself tagged here now! Let me look into this a bit. I know dimethyl ether is regarded as a useful solvent with mj in the organic chem literature but this is in scenarios again where high purity lab solvents are being used.

I do not suggest that anybody play around with new solvents like this if they have not consulted an organic chemist about proper safety protocols.

I can tell you all unequivocally that some of the best solvents for advanced mmj work are known to contain seriously toxic impurities and some of these solvents are themselves toxic or choking hazards in very low concentrations (hundreds of ppm in some cases) when used in a room without a fumehood etc.

I will add that I know that Dimethyl ether has a number of storage related safety considerations. Like many things, it cannot be stored near sources of ignition or spark. However, oxidative reactions after a vessel containing dimethyl ether has been opened and then left for a long period can lead to peroxide forming inside the storage vessel. This makes the storage vessel filled with dimethyl ether a potential explosion hazard from any subsequent excess heat, impact or friction.

I can see this being a problem in cases where the hobbyist tries to use this as a solvent, doesn't revisit again and leaves the excess solvent sitting about in the vessel long term.

Also, dimethyl ether has short term exposure limits worldwide set at ~500ppm (average exposure limits tend to be lower still of course so regular dabbing really should be involving lower exposure, at ~400ppm). This means that any concentrate created with this solvent will need to be well purged. If there are tiny trace amounts of residual dimethyl ether (.04% or greater for longer term use, or .05% or greater for one off/short term use), you are inhaling more of that chemical than international safety standards deem safe.

I am gonna venture that none of us present have access to regular analyses of each of our batches of material to ensure that we've purged to this extent or greater.

Let's leave this one to more qualified chemists, if at all :)
 
Last edited:

tepictoton

Well-Known Member
I used the blue white DME cans... Came out brownish and smells awful.

Used same ' technique ' as with butane, meaning everything was frozen and staid below 0 degrees celcius.

Did give a higher return but I myself would never think of dabbing this, never ever....

Think herbivore might be correct...
 

herbivore21

Well-Known Member
Whoa apologies for double post - but I'll just say that after my initial brief read leading to what I posted above - I've found some pretty varied data in the scholarly/regulatory literature on safe levels for atmospheric exposure ranging from the figure above ranging all the way to 2000ppm (0.2% residual) for chronic exposure and 20,000ppm (2% residual - this had ) for acute exposure in another source. I also observed a source providing a level at 1000ppm (.1% residual). Chronic exposure levels would be relevant assuming one was hypothetically going to dab this regularly. Acute exposure levels would be relevant if one were simply wanting to try this kind of product once-off. I would refer to the lowest of all safe exposure levels provided to err on the side of caution in these kinds of cases.

It seems there is/has recently been a lot of interest right now in dimethyl ether in food and even fuel applications internationally. There is a lot of new research and associated data emerging in recent times on relevant topics and I'm sure there's more to come yet. There are not OSHA exposure limits provided on this one yet.

To make things more convoluted - the question of peroxide formation in dimethyl ether may actually be the result of one or more miscategorization/typo/copy-paste mistakes in relevant publications!

A lot of discussion was had at ICmag on this one. Here is the link: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=273223&page=25

Work your way backwards from that final page to read further.

Some there and on youtube and in some other corners of the internet have reported mixed results using dimethyl ether. Some say they got something nice. Some say they got something nasty (various kinds, aside from tepictoton's comments above, there are also some who suggest that this solvent pulls unwanted green color into the mix - suggesting in some cases that this has a relationship to the length of 'wash'/contact time with material and temp at which extraction took place).

Best reports are coming back suggesting slightly lower overall yields than butane but this may be due to DME having a slightly lower dialectric constant than butane has, leading to less waxes being pulled from the material (all of this is IIRC and I may be wrong, this lower yield may actually be due to a negative cause for our purposes too!).

What this means is that DME may indeed show some promise for our purposes over other solvents - it might allow us to have a relatively 'dewaxed' (in terms of less wax being pulled out in initial extraction) extract with similar processing requirements to BHO (no winterization required). This would equate to more terps than winterized BHO and less wax than unwinterized BHO and could be judged as a gain vs BHO if this is all true (and it might not be!). DME does cost a fair chunk of change more than butane though. It also comes with all of the complications mentioned above when it comes to trying to answer basic safety questions.

I will stop short of saying DME is unsafe across the board for all extract artists. I will say that anyone who tries to use this product really ought to be sure that they have purged it properly to lower residuals (via a certificate of analysis from a proper lab!) than relevant atmospheric exposure limits (at least! - 0ppm would be preferable, but may result in material that has lost some of the lower boiling terps and may somewhat diminish the benefits of this method over BHO/winterization, we must consider whether the end result will be worth the trouble given this)! Better safe than sorry til better information arrives for our consideration.

I will finally highlight that there are other advanced dual solvent (don't ask, this is not shit for any of us to use - this tek entails demonstrable dangers above and beyond what we normally have to deal with for BHO and other common solvents we use!) and solventless methods that already reliably produce higher terp containing material than what DME has been purported to give by anybody including the manufacturer of the DME products mentioned by skunk pharm!


I am not convinced that all safety considerations aside, DME will be worth using over existing options. Of course, when better information reveals itself to us - we might find that DME is a somewhat better option to use on balance than plain old BHO.

For now, I'll stick to advising that this be left to more qualified chemists ;) We're not necessarily missing out on much.

Fuck, I can't proofread this post but I'll share it anyway. Please forgive any issues that may have slipped through without editing.
 
Last edited:
herbivore21,
  • Like
Reactions: RxPlorer

PPN

Volute of Vapor
I used the blue white DME cans... Came out brownish and smells awful.

Used same ' technique ' as with butane, meaning everything was frozen and staid below 0 degrees celcius.

Did give a higher return but I myself would never think of dabbing this, never ever....

Think herbivore might be correct...
Bought one too some months ago and tested it today.... it might be better to read this thread before cause I exactly got what you described, at least twice the amount I get with butane and it smells very bad after several hours to purge, I continue to purge but final product looks like a qwiso run... Idon't know if there is still terpènes into.... very disappointed to waste enough trim to produce 1,5g of nice tasty shatter!
 
PPN,
Top Bottom