Cheap Chinese e-Nail thread

Sorry for the double post, no more Edit option. Mods can merge for me

I can confirm that the LCD Omron model from Greenlight does use the QX version with a separate SSR. I could already tell that by the super fast heat up times and accuracy compared to all other Chinese units I have tried. The SSR even has a heat sink and the unit has a powered USB port in the back for charging things. Since I know this is the one you ordered @Baron23 you should be very happy with it.

mrbonsai420 said:

Sorry for the double post, no more Edit option. Mods can merge for me

I can confirm that the LCD Omron model from Greenlight does use the QX version with a separate SSR. I could already tell that by the super fast heat up times and accuracy compared to all other Chinese units I have tried. The SSR even has a heat sink and the unit has a powered USB port in the back for charging things. Since I know this is the one you ordered @Baron23 you should be very happy with it.

Click to expand...

OUTSTANDING. Thank you so much. Its on its way anyway, but now I feel more reassured that I got a good unit. Really appreciate all of the steers you gave me on this, @mrbonsai420

mrbonsai420 said:

Sorry for the double post, no more Edit option. Mods can merge for me

I can confirm that the LCD Omron model from Greenlight does use the QX version with a separate SSR. I could already tell that by the super fast heat up times and accuracy compared to all other Chinese units I have tried. The SSR even has a heat sink and the unit has a powered USB port in the back for charging things. Since I know this is the one you ordered @Baron23 you should be very happy with it.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the info, it will help to make recommendations in the future.

Here is the G9 that @mrbonsai420 referred me to. It arrived today and aside from time zone and language differences, all in all it this transaction came out very well. $130 + $36 shipping without Ti nail and carb cap. + $15 if you want nail/cap added in.

The one improvement that I'm going to recommend to them came from Josh at CCA710. Specifically, it would be nice if they had two power buttons, 1) a rocker switch on the back for main power and; 2) the existing button on the front only controls turning the coil on/off. In this manner, you can power off the coil but see residual temp as it cools down (or just try the lick test LOL). Josh's Gimodo, which is very similar to this unit, has that feature.

Baron23 said:

Here is the G9 that @mrbonsai420 referred me to. It arrived today and aside from time zone and language differences, all in all it this transaction came out very well. $130 + $36 shipping without Ti nail and carb cap. + $15 if you want nail/cap added in.

The one improvement that I'm going to recommend to them came from Josh at CCA710. Specifically, it would be nice if they had two power buttons, 1) a rocker switch on the back for main power and; 2) the existing button on the front only controls turning the coil on/off. In this manner, you can power off the coil but see residual temp as it cools down (or just try the lick test LOL). Josh's Gimodo, which is very similar to this unit, has that feature.

Click to expand...

Nice! I hope you like it. I know you will when the Liger arrives. Solid unit and You actually got a better deal on it than I did.
And If I am at home and awake, my Enail is on! I turn it off twice a day, once before work and once again before bed. And I don't wait around on it to cool down, It doesn't take long. That C2 donut rig of yours looks pretty steady (and nice!) , is that what your Enail is going on?

Baron23 said:

Here is the G9 that @mrbonsai420 referred me to. It arrived today and aside from time zone and language differences, all in all it this transaction came out very well. $130 + $36 shipping without Ti nail and carb cap. + $15 if you want nail/cap added in.

The one improvement that I'm going to recommend to them came from Josh at CCA710. Specifically, it would be nice if they had two power buttons, 1) a rocker switch on the back for main power and; 2) the existing button on the front only controls turning the coil on/off. In this manner, you can power off the coil but see residual temp as it cools down (or just try the lick test LOL). Josh's Gimodo, which is very similar to this unit, has that feature.

Click to expand...

My first one had a separate button but my new one (with the XLR 5-pin) did not. There is however a very simple workaround. If you need to watch the temp drop, just set the target temp below room temperature (say 50F) and you're good to go.

mrbonsai420 said:

Nice! I hope you like it. I know you will when the Liger arrives. Solid unit and You actually got a better deal on it than I did.
And If I am at home and awake, my Enail is on! I turn it off twice a day, once before work and once again before bed. And I don't wait around on it to cool down, It doesn't take long. That C2 donut rig of yours looks pretty steady (and nice!) , is that what your Enail is going on?

Click to expand...

Hi Mr B - yep, the C2. I rather like it. It bubbles just fine (to me there comes a point of diminishing returns in performance), it is solid with a real heavy base which is why I chose it, and all of the joints look nice and cleanly done.

@Monsoon - yeah, I see the point that you and Mr B are making but I like Josh's point also. My Volcano Digit will count down the cool down also if left plugged in, which I thought was a very nice feature, but actuality I rarely do that. I just pull the plug at bedtime and put it away the next morning.

Looking forward to getting my shipment from Josh soon and THEN I will be able to say something intelligent about this rig (well, intelligent is really pushing it...perhaps just mildly coherent? LOL)

Cheers

Baron23 said:

Here is the G9 that @mrbonsai420 referred me to. It arrived today and aside from time zone and language differences, all in all it this transaction came out very well. $130 + $36 shipping without Ti nail and carb cap. + $15 if you want nail/cap added in.

The one improvement that I'm going to recommend to them came from Josh at CCA710. Specifically, it would be nice if they had two power buttons, 1) a rocker switch on the back for main power and; 2) the existing button on the front only controls turning the coil on/off. In this manner, you can power off the coil but see residual temp as it cools down (or just try the lick test LOL). Josh's Gimodo, which is very similar to this unit, has that feature.

Click to expand...

You might be able to do a quick rewire on your controller to go to a two switch setup. I used one of these https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00N41D5Z4/ to input power and be my main power switch.

brucee10 said:

You might be able to do a quick rewire on your controller to go to a two switch setup. I used one of these https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00N41D5Z4/ to input power and be my main power switch.

Click to expand...

HI Bruce - indeed another poster suggested that it is fairly straight forward to work on these controller boxes and having seem the pics that @mrbonsai420 posted indeed show that there ain't much in there but the Omron assembly, a SSR, and some connectors/switch.

HOWEVER, in my youth as an aerospace engineer I learned to NEVER touch the hardware (had to do with an H-3 helicopter and the 300 pin main connector for the instrument panel...don't ask but I had to hide from the crew chief LOL) so I think I will be just fine the way it is. Gimodo's best controller uses the same Omron and does indeed have two switches.

But I will look at it at some point. I would assume that the main power and the controller power are in parallel the on one existing switch and all I would have to do is pull the existing main power connector and replace it with the switch you showed (hopefull it would fit in the same enclosure through hole).

Good idea and thanks for the tip.

Baron23 said:

HI Bruce - indeed another poster suggested that it is fairly straight forward to work on these controller boxes and having seem the pics that @mrbonsai420 posted indeed show that there ain't much in there but the Omron assembly, a SSR, and some connectors/switch.

HOWEVER, in my youth as an aerospace engineer I learned to NEVER touch the hardware (had to do with an H-3 helicopter and the 300 pin main connector for the instrument panel...don't ask but I had to hide from the crew chief LOL) so I think I will be just fine the way it is. Gimodo's best controller uses the same Omron and does indeed have two switches.

But I will look at it at some point. I would assume that the main power and the controller power are in parallel the on one existing switch and all I would have to do is pull the existing main power connector and replace it with the switch you showed (hopefull it would fit in the same enclosure through hole).

Good idea and thanks for the tip.

Click to expand...

In my youth as a engineer in training, I was encouraged to take everything apart. To this day I always open all of my devices and do all of my more intensive repair work on my car and house. I forced myself to build my own controller so that I wouldn't waste my engineering degree like I do as a software developer.

I just use one of these, it gives me a secondary switch as well as a safety timer


(from the op)

grokit said:

I just use one of these, it gives me a secondary switch as well as a safety timer

(from the op)

Click to expand...

Yes, but that still means that main power mains and power to the coil are controlled by one switch. Some think it would be a nice feature to be able to turn off the coil but leave main power to the control module/display so you can see temp of coil as it cools down. Not absolute requirement, but nice to have and the cost of adding a switch is negligible to the manufacturers. I suggested this to Greenlight (it wasn't my idea, was given to me) and they like it a lot. We will see if they incorporate it.

grokit said:

I just use one of these, it gives me a secondary switch as well as a safety timer

(from the op)

Click to expand...

I am not really an electronics guru but is that switch able to handle the current safely? Hope that is not a stupid question.

Silat said:

I am not really an electronics guru but is that switch able to handle the current safely? Hope that is not a stupid question.

Click to expand...

It's built to handle typical appliance current so it should do just fine.

I like using it because I can set it for six hours, then hot-switch it to a 30-minute cleaning cycle when I want to turn it up to clean the quartz dish; then it safely turns itself off when it's done. It's grounded & safe.

I have just ordered this new i-ONE from manufacturer:

Technical description sounds very well and I like it's design.

Have paid w/o nail (they only have ti 16mm) but with a 2nd coil heater (1 x flat/ 1 x 20mm, both stainless steel braided) 91.43$ w/o shipping.

Aside of this I have ordered a Quartz-Hybrid-nail (flat coil) at another shop for 13$.

Will review when I'll get and have tested it.

..when or better IF I'll get it!
Up to now it was a real odysee.....such a lack of communicatiuon I have never experienced in my whole life! It was surreal. Needed nearly 10 days to explain this CS-idiot (sorry for that, but he/she really is one and not very polite) only a few specifications. Felt somewhat as being in hidden camera - really unbelievable. I had to repeat my specs again and again - somekind of a mantra. I couldnt believe it. He/she really drove me crazy.
A REAL lesson in humility and serenity which I have failed

Here my little specifications for CS-beginners:

1) PID with blue display and all in black, including the color of display frame.

PID must be suitable for 220 V, with EU-2-PIN-Plug

2) Flat coil heater, stainless steel braided, 220V

3) 20mm coil heater, stainless steel braided, 220V

That it was! Difficult? I dont think so.
After completing my order - he/she changed price 3x cause of unwanted items and specifications! - I asked them for a written repeat to be sure. I didnt got it up to now.
I expect the worst when delivery will arrive....
Will review for sure

Never ending story. Yesterday he repeated order with specifications. Today I asked him about date of shipping. And he? Wrote if I want a 2nd coil heater I have to pay for it!?!?
Gave him a last chance to rethink this. Absolutly crazy - unprofessional and untrustworthy.
Beware of zlwei

HI @SamuraiSam and others in this thread who were so helpful and informed on Omron PID controller in my Greenlight G9 controller.

I have a question, I received some recommendations on setting up Omron parameters, pretty much all of which were already the factory set values except that it was NOT set to us PID as the control algorithm.

I changed it to PID and then ran the auto-tune function with self-tune off which, on page 4-9 of this manual seems to be the recommended configuration:

https://www.myomron.com/downloads/1...4-E1-02 E5CC E5EC Temp. Controller Manual.pdf

Now, I think I have even worse overshoots than before. It seems to swing as high as +20 while on the low side it seems to be limited to -7 degrees from set point. I think I had better performance without PID.

I have turned ST back on and ran AT again. Same result. Insofar as ST will only be invoked under certain cirumstances (like a change to set point) it shouldn't matter.

I have personally confirmed that my Omron E5CC is indeed the QX variant with external SSR.

What kind of stability should I be seeing and any insight on where I may have gone wrong (or is this the expected performance??).

Thanks

@mrbonsai420 @SamuraiSam @Monsoon

Well guys, I have a sad tale to tell about Greenlight Vapes G9 enail controller.

In a word, it sucks at holding temperature and Greenlight sucks in how they prep'd this unit and are supporting it.

First of all, communicating with them is awful. Ok, its China, its 12 hours out in time zone (more or less), and I don't speak Chinese. Oh, did I mention that either over there or over hear, emails seems to be routinely blocked but we got gmail to work (who knows).

But the real issue as that, after checking all settings and ensuring that they are right (for example, Greenlight did NOT have PID turned on!! ), the temperature stability sucks with -11 and up to +21 degrees F under/overshoot. This is after running autotune (multiple times) and multiple heat up cycles and plenty of time at temperature soak.

I did verify that mine has an Omron E5CC-QX part number is just exactly what you would want....output to external solid state relay and for use with USA electrical power.

Here it is:


But I started looking for the external SSR. Where is it? Could this be it (@mrbonsai420, this is what your looks like also I believe):



Well, the answer is no, this is a Flextronics USB power adapter, which is kind of obvious as it provides a UBS plug on the outside of the box, but I looked it up anyway. See here for part number:


You will notice that there is no other devices in this box...just the Omron, the UBS power adapter, main power plug, and on/off switch.

WTF!

So, the E5CC is made to drive an external SSR. Where is the fucking relay for power to the coil??

As you can see in this diagram, SSR should be on pin 1 & 2 on the Omron. This would be the two pins in the lower left hand corner which have NOTHING ATTACHED TO THEM!


This is further clearly shown in the Omron manual for the QX



But here is a picture of my Omron pins...pins 1 & 2 are in the lower left hand corner


However, those two contacts in the upper left hand corner with red wires soldered to them are aux outputs.....what they hell are they using these for??

Not only is the performance, I believe, completely unsatisfactory, I can't even figure out how they are getting it to work at all.

I will note that I do hear an audible 'click' when heater turns on/off which I should think is a mechanical relay but I don't know where the hell that would be either....don't see it in the box at all

Questions please, gentlemen:

1. What is the over/under shoot you are having with your Omron E5CC controllers after heat soak (when stable at temperature). I just want to know what my expectations should be.

2. Do you hear an audible clicking with heater on/off cycling AND do you know for a fact that you have an SSR in there? I don't think SSR's make noise but...I'm open to be schooled.

I am very disatisfied, I think a 30 degree range from over to undershoot is ludicrius for any controller box using an industrial temp controller like a PID Omron.

Any insights you can offer would be very welcomed.

Thank you and sorry for the long post but I don't know how to further compress it.

Sorry to hear of the issues here Baron. That is not a solid state relay. What is on the other side of that piece? That looks like a 120v > USB power brick with leads attached where the prongs that go into the wall are. If that is what that is... What's it doing inside your e-nail?

Noticed my iPhone charger looks pretty similar.




This is an example of a solid state relay http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_30&products_id=9 or https://www.amazon.com/40A-SSR-Solid-State-Relay/dp/B004HZLMTW

You might want to find out how the PID controller is wired and check that against the user manual for that particular controller. There are multiple ways to wire components to the controller. Once you have verified all the physical connections are made properly then the last step is programming the controller. There are many settings besides just the P, I, and D values and if your controller was not even configured for PID operation then all the values need to be thrown out and you'd have to start from scratch.

This brings up the next point which is, does anyone have a good PID tuning guide for an e-nail? My PID controller's auto-tune function delivers garbage functionality so I have been attempting to tune my controller for a new coil as well. I don't have the same level of perfection as my previous coil yet so Im not going to pretend to offer advice on how to adjust. I can tell you that you can't just plug-in someone else's numbers and expect it work perfectly because different coils and different PID controllers both require different settings. From my understanding, only if you had the same coil and same PID controller could you use someone else's numbers straight across.

Until someone has more applicable information, here's information that's helped me out:

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/...troller-what-are-your-pid-settings-heres-mine

http://www.controleng.com/single-ar...d-loops/aebf3cf5326fbf2db40450e202903301.html

http://innovativecontrols.com/blog/basics-tuning-pid-loops

*Edit: I saw your specific questions and apologize that I cannot answer them since my e-nail predates your fancy Omron PID controller, my old school box uses a simple Auber PID. There is no audible clicking. On a previous setup with barrel coil and quartz nail I would see at most a 10 degree fluctuation as displayed on the PID, but keep in mind this is not the temperature at the nail. On my current flat coil + SiC setup I see a much larger fluctuation which I am working to reduce by changing P, I, and D values.

Baron23 said:

@mrbonsai420 @SamuraiSam @Monsoon

Well guys, I have a sad tale to tell about Greenlight Vapes G9 enail controller.

In a word, it sucks at holding temperature and Greenlight sucks in how they prep'd this unit and are supporting it.

First of all, communicating with them is awful. Ok, its China, its 12 hours out in time zone (more or less), and I don't speak Chinese. Oh, did I mention that either over there or over hear, emails seems to be routinely blocked but we got gmail to work (who knows).

But the real issue as that, after checking all settings and ensuring that they are right (for example, Greenlight did NOT have PID turned on), the temperature stability sucks with -11 and up to +21 degrees F under/overshoot. This is after running autotune (multiple times) and multiple heat up cycles and plenty of time at temperature soak.

I did verify that mine has an Omron E5CC-QX part number is just exactly what you would want....output to external solid state relay and for use with USA electrical power.

Here it is:

But I started looking for the external SSR. Where is it? Could this be it (@mrbonsai420, this is what your looks like also I believe):

Well, the answer is no, this is a Flextronics USB power adapter, which is kind of obvious as it provides a UBS plug on the outside of the box, but I looked it up anyway. See here for part number:

You will notice that there is no other devices in this box...just the Omron, the UBS power adapter, main power plug, and on/off switch.

WTF!

So, the E5CC is made to drive an external SSR. Where is the fucking relay for power to the coil??

As you can see in this diagram, SSR should be on pin 1 & 2 on the Omron. This would be the two pins in the lower left hand corner which have NOTHING ATTACHED TO THEM!

But here is a picture of my Omron pins...pins 1 & 2 are in the lower left hand corner

Click to expand...

That sucks Baron, I'm sorry. No point in using the Omron PiD in the first place without using a stand alone SSR IMO, What Shit? I guess that explains how they cut the cost by close to $75- $100 since I bought mine there. I am not affiliated with them but I do have a sales person that usually replies back within 24 hours if you want their contact info.
I have never tried to return anything there but I did ship an old henail back for warranty replacement and they had me send it to Cali and sent me a new one right away. Maybe you can get a refund and either go with a standard cheapy or another Omron that has the confirmed SSR (maybe Gimodo still uses the SSR?). I paid $235 plus shipping and I believe they cut the price of this model just recently, I guess we know how now. Is sucks they soldered instead of screwed the wires too but you could still wire in your own SSR for not too much $$ I guess?

I do know for certain that the model they had for sale last year for $235 did in fact have the SSR as seen here. On a positive note my other 3 enails are all set up like yours, with no seperate SSR and cheaper PiDs and they all work well too. The temp may drop more, but my dabs aren't really any different.

Let us know what Greenlight says about the refund. I'm curious because they don't actually say it has a stand alone SSR, we just assumed it because it uses the correct Omron PiD and that they definitely used to use a stand alone relay.

So you don't see this, or a little white ceramic cube with wires in yours?

While it sucks and it pretty much means yours isn't much better than a $100 enail, a few degrees drop at the coil shouldn't change the surface temp of the nail too much and shouldn't ruin the basic enail experience for you. Especially a Liger with an insert already heat soaked. The dab will naturally bring it down in temp but if you are starting at a good temp your dab should be solid no matter how cheap of an enail you have. PM me your settings and setup and I'll see if we can figure out why your not getting good results.



Or

mrbonsai420 said:

That sucks Baron, I'm sorry. No point in using the Omron PiD in the first place without using a stand alone SSR IMO, What Shit? I guess that explains how they cut the cost by close to $75- $100 since I bought mine there.
I have never tried to return anything there but I did ship an old henail back for warranty replacement and they had me send it to Cali and sent me a new one right away. Maybe you can get a refund and either go with a standard cheapy or another Omron that has the confirmed SSR (maybe Gimodo still uses the SSR?). I paid $235 plus shipping and I believe they cut the price of this model just recently, I guess we know how now. Is sucks they soldered instead of screwed the wires too but you could still wire in your own SSR for not too much $$ I guess?

I do know for certain that the model they had for sale last year for $235 did in fact have the SSR as seen here. On a positive note my other 3 enails are all set up like yours, with no seperate SSR and cheaper PiDs and they all work well too. The temp may drop more, but my dabs aren't really any different.

Let us know what Greenlight saysa about the refund. I'm curious because they don't actually say it has a stand alone SSR, we just assumed it because it uses the correct Omron PiD and that they definitely used to use a stand alone relay.

So you don't see this, or a little white ceramic cube with wires in yours?

Or

Click to expand...

Nope, just the USB power adapter on the back of the box. Thanks Bonsai. I'm not sure it would affect my dabs either but when I want to set a temperature, I want to set that fucking temperature. I think the range when stable aught to be in the low single digit degrees F. We will see what they say.

And yes, they did not explicitly state that it had an SSR but why in the world use a PID SSR capable controller assembly and what the hell are they using to switch power to the coil.

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

SamuraiSam said:

Sorry to hear of the issues here Baron. That is not a solid state relay. What is on the other side of that piece? That looks like a 120v > USB power brick with leads attached where the prongs that go into the wall are. If that is what that is... What's it doing inside your e-nail?

Noticed my iPhone charger looks pretty similar.

This is an example of a solid state relay http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_30&products_id=9 or https://www.amazon.com/40A-SSR-Solid-State-Relay/dp/B004HZLMTW

You might want to find out how the PID controller is wired and check that against the user manual for that particular controller. There are multiple ways to wire components to the controller. Once you have verified all the physical connections are made properly then the last step is programming the controller. There are many settings besides just the P, I, and D values and if your controller was not even configured for PID operation then all the values need to be thrown out and you'd have to start from scratch.

This brings up the next point which is, does anyone have a good PID tuning guide for an e-nail? My PID controller's auto-tune function delivers garbage functionality so I have been attempting to tune my controller for a new coil as well. I don't have the same level of perfection as my previous coil yet so Im not going to pretend to offer advice on how to adjust. I can tell you that you can't just plug-in someone else's numbers and expect it work perfectly because different coils and different PID controllers both require different settings. From my understanding, only if you had the same coil and same PID controller could you use someone else's numbers straight across.

Until someone has more applicable information, here's information that's helped me out:

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/...troller-what-are-your-pid-settings-heres-mine

http://www.controleng.com/single-ar...d-loops/aebf3cf5326fbf2db40450e202903301.html

http://innovativecontrols.com/blog/basics-tuning-pid-loops

*Edit: I saw your specific questions and apologize that I cannot answer them since my e-nail predates your fancy Omron PID controller, my old school box uses a simple Auber PID. There is no audible clicking. On a previous setup with barrel coil and quartz nail I would see at most a 10 degree fluctuation as displayed on the PID, but keep in mind this is not the temperature at the nail. On my current flat coil + SiC setup I see a much larger fluctuation which I am working to reduce by changing P, I, and D values.

Click to expand...

Hi Sam -

1. Yes, not a relay. I got that and it is exactly what you mentioned...its a USB power adapter like the ones used by Apple. Behind it on the outside of the box is a USB socket. I thought that this is for automated programming of the Omron (there is that capability) but don't know for sure.

2. It looks like they are using Aux outputs to drive the coil? Maybe linked to alarms for over/under temp. WTF Its complete crap.

3. Yes, I know that there are a lot more settings that first addressed via the configuration settings display. BUT, I did get some recommended settings for these and the only difference was PID was not on. NOW, this is NOT the PID settings you are trying to fine tune. Out of my league there. I just used autotune to set the detailed PID configuration. I still think 30 degree swing is ludicrous.

4. I agree that if PID was not set to ON then what the fuck else didn't they do?

5. Settings in my Omron are below. I'm sure that these are all very familiar to you and really only a couple of them should impact temp stability performance.

Hold down 1st button for 4 seconds
- Press 2nd button to cycle through
- Use up and down arrows to select value

CN-t = 5
d-U = F
SL-H = 1300
SL-L = -200
CNTL = Pid
S-HC = Stnd
St = ON
CP = 2
GREV = GR-R
ALt1 = 2
ALH1 = 0.2
ALt2 = 2
ALH2 = 0.3

Hold Down 1st button for 3 seconds to exit/save

From Main screen
Press 2nd button to see option

R-5 = RUN
AL-1 = 0
AL-2 = 0

From Main Screen
Press 1st button
At = ON (setting will go back to off when you turn the unit off, this is okay because it is part of the calibration process, it only needs to calibrate once

6. I don't know how they have this thing wired up and until they reject my refund request, I'm not taking it apart any further. Tell the truth, this is a simple fucking home appliance and should not a DYI Heath Kit. I just wanted a controller, not a hobby! LOL

got to run right now but will be back up later

Baron23 said:

Hi Sam -

1. Yes, not a relay. I got that and it is exactly what you mentioned...its a USB power adapter like the ones used by Apple. Behind it on the outside of the box is a USB socket. I thought that this is for automated programming of the Omron (there is that capability) but don't know for sure.

2. It looks like they are using Aux outputs to drive the coil? Maybe linked to alarms for over/under temp. WTF Its complete crap.

3. Yes, I know that there are a lot more settings that first addressed via the configuration settings display. BUT, I did get some recommended settings for these and the only difference was PID was not on. NOW, this is NOT the PID settings you are trying to fine tune. Out of my league there. I just used autotune to set the detailed PID configuration. I still think 30 degree swing is ludicrous.

4. I agree that if PID was not set to ON then what the fuck else didn't they do?

5. Settings in my Omron are below. I'm sure that these are all very familiar to you and really only a couple of them should impact temp stability performance.

Hold down 1st button for 4 seconds
- Press 2nd button to cycle through
- Use up and down arrows to select value

CN-t = 5
d-U = F
SL-H = 1300
SL-L = -200
CNTL = Pid
S-HC = Stnd
St = ON
CP = 2
GREV = GR-R
ALt1 = 2
ALH1 = 0.2
ALt2 = 2
ALH2 = 0.3

Hold Down 1st button for 3 seconds to exit/save

From Main screen
Press 2nd button to see option

R-5 = RUN
AL-1 = 0
AL-2 = 0

From Main Screen
Press 1st button
At = ON (setting will go back to off when you turn the unit off, this is okay because it is part of the calibration process, it only needs to calibrate once

6. I don't know how they have this thing wired up and until they reject my refund request, I'm not taking it apart any further. Tell the truth, this is a simple fucking home appliance and should not a DYI Heath Kit. I just wanted a controller, not a hobby! LOL

got to run right now but will be back up later

Click to expand...

Was it fluctuating 30 degrees with the factory programming? If so this isn't a result of it not having a stand alone SSR, any cheap ass $80 enail with a mechanical or built in relay can hold temps to at least 8 or 10 degrees. If it's fluctuating 30 with factory settings either the settings are wrong or the unit is faulty IMO.

Any of these shitty enails work fine, no reason why that more expensive one shouldn't. II doubt they would deny you a refund it you ask for one since they are aware you can just as easily get the money back from Visa.

http://www.dhgate.com/product/d-nai....html#gw-2-3|ff80808156209eea0156af7fa3c86219