What do Californians (and the rest) think of AUMA?
- Thread starter Magic9
- Start date
turk
turk
...unfortunately we NEVER see promised revenues manifest in programs that benefit...us...
...much like the lottery was supposed to benefit...schools...that was sure successful...
looney2nz
Research Geek, Mad Scientist
June 27 - Placer County, which had been leading the way among rural counties in codifying the new state MMRSA medical marijuana law at the local level, voted last week to restrict cannabis cultivation in its unincorporated areas to 6 plants or 50 square feet (whichever is less), grown indoors.
- Police Task Forces Target California Concentrate Makers
June 16 - Yesterday’s multi-agency raids on Sonoma County cannabis concentrate manufacturers Care by Design and AbsolutExtracts may be part of a pattern targeting such businesses in California.
- Local elections bring mixed returns for marijuana advocates
June 8 - Advocates of liberalized medical marijuana rules fared poorly in local elections last night. The one bright spot was Nevada County, where voters rejected a proposed ban on outdoor cultivation of medical marijuana, Measure W by 58%.
the Placer stuff is concerning
My late friend Eric from Arcata fought like hell to show folks exactly how big 50 sq ft is (their original bill was increased to 100 sq ft minimum), and that 'support' equipment and supplies should not be included in that space (this was solely canopy).Santa Rosa and Sonoma... argh
I thought the the Rohrabacher-Farr amendment was supposed to prevent federal agencies from spending funds against Medical Cannabis laws. Why is the DEA involved here?
Rick
Zapman
Another article on AUMA. Looks like there are some questions about where the money will go. It appears this subject will be a battleground between giant pharma corps and the rest of us. I'd vote no if I was still a California resident(left in 1972). Initiatives created by the big guys are always questionable.
http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/36746-monsanto-bayer-and-the-push-for-corporate-cannabis
http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/36746-monsanto-bayer-and-the-push-for-corporate-cannabis
thisperson
Ruler of all things person
Fuck those cocksuckers. >.< I'm definitely voting no. We have a good thing with prop 215.
CarolKing
Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
With WA state basically losing its medical cannabis system I would be very careful even though they say that the medical will be just fine for you folks in CA. Anything can happen after its signed into law. The lawmakers can change things around if they want to. Nothing is set in stone.
Several lawmakers are probably being courted by big pharma as we speak. Prepackaged cannabis isn't what you want. You don't want sky high medible costs.
Several lawmakers are probably being courted by big pharma as we speak. Prepackaged cannabis isn't what you want. You don't want sky high medible costs.
CarolKing
Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
I found this on the Facebook page to post for support for WA Medical Cannabis. Some of this info could have been previously posted. I apologize if it had.
Protect Medical Marijuana in Washington State
July 15 at 9:21am ·
PSA for California voters: California's "Adult Use of Marijuana Act" (AUMA) is a voter initiative characterized as legalizing marijuana use. But critics warn that it will actually make access more difficult and expensive, squeeze home growers and small farmers out of the market, heighten criminal sanctions for violations, and open the door to patented, genetically modified (GMO) versions that must be purchased year after year.
Critics note that of the hundreds of millions in tax revenues that AUMA is expected to generate from marijuana and marijuana-related products, not a penny will go to the California general fund. That means no money for California's public schools, colleges, universities, hospitals, roads and other infrastructure. Instead, it will go into a giant slush fund controlled by AUMA's "Marijuana Control Board," to be spent first for its own administration, then for its own law enforcement, then for penal and judicial program expenditures.
Law enforcement and penalties will continue to be big business, since AUMA legalizes marijuana use only for people over 21 and makes access so difficult and expensive that even adults could be tempted to turn to the black market. "Legalization" through AUMA will chiefly serve a petrochemical/pharmaceutical complex bent on controlling all farming and plant life globally.
Monsanto, Bayer and the Push for Corporate Cannabis
Critics note that of the hundreds of millions in tax revenues that AUMA is expected to generate, not a penny will go to the California general fund.
TRUTH-OUT.ORG|BY ELLEN BROWN
Protect Medical Marijuana in Washington State
July 15 at 9:21am ·
PSA for California voters: California's "Adult Use of Marijuana Act" (AUMA) is a voter initiative characterized as legalizing marijuana use. But critics warn that it will actually make access more difficult and expensive, squeeze home growers and small farmers out of the market, heighten criminal sanctions for violations, and open the door to patented, genetically modified (GMO) versions that must be purchased year after year.
Critics note that of the hundreds of millions in tax revenues that AUMA is expected to generate from marijuana and marijuana-related products, not a penny will go to the California general fund. That means no money for California's public schools, colleges, universities, hospitals, roads and other infrastructure. Instead, it will go into a giant slush fund controlled by AUMA's "Marijuana Control Board," to be spent first for its own administration, then for its own law enforcement, then for penal and judicial program expenditures.
Law enforcement and penalties will continue to be big business, since AUMA legalizes marijuana use only for people over 21 and makes access so difficult and expensive that even adults could be tempted to turn to the black market. "Legalization" through AUMA will chiefly serve a petrochemical/pharmaceutical complex bent on controlling all farming and plant life globally.
Monsanto, Bayer and the Push for Corporate Cannabis
Critics note that of the hundreds of millions in tax revenues that AUMA is expected to generate, not a penny will go to the California general fund.
TRUTH-OUT.ORG|BY ELLEN BROWN
archangelz001
FIRE!!
I think the nay-sayers are sticking their heads in the sand. AUMA is legalization of production, distribution and consumption of cannabis and cannabis products. Yes, there are a number of sticking points that need to be ironed out, but those who want to only vote for perfection for cannabis consumers, like the inititative CCHI, are just "pipe-dreamers." I agree that MCLR was shorter and more balanced, but it didn't qualify for the ballot. Legalization was voted down in 2010 in Ca, and now 6 years later we have a chance to pass an initiative which, while far from perfect, gets us on the right path to full legalization. Social conservatives and law enforcement need to see for themselves that cannabis is a safe substance, much safer than alcohol or tobacco. If we are ever to get it de-scheduled by the Feds the states have to demonstrate that, when legalized, crime and addiction and violence and DUI do not increase. California's economy is the 6th largest in the world and making cannabis legal will give both our country and the world the necessary push to recognizing cannabis as a safe recreational substance and as an incredibly valuable medical tool. And I'm a medical patient with advanced prostate cancer who uses it for both medical and recreational purposes. This is all just IMHO.
turk
turk
.....agree with everything you said...the problem is ...are we just putting lipstick on a pig...with this model..deck looks stacked...table slanted...dice loaded ..
KimDracula
Well-Known Member
I think it's a mistake to hold out for what we in the cannabis community think is perfect. There is always going to be a reason to oppose legalization because we would prefer very little regulation as we know how benign cannabis is even at its worst. There seems to be a lot of inchoate paranoia out there regarding corporations, big pharma, and what bad stuff could happen if we legalize. Bad stuff can happen and changes made to the status quo if we do nothing as well. We have a precarious de-facto extralegal medical system in CA that works for now in some places for some people. It's time to go all the way.
To those who are worried about the AUMA or oppose it, can you be specific about your concerns? What provisions do you oppose, why, and what do you think would be appropriate? I don't see what's scary here.
To those who are worried about the AUMA or oppose it, can you be specific about your concerns? What provisions do you oppose, why, and what do you think would be appropriate? I don't see what's scary here.
@KimDracula I've quoted the various comments in this thread that have expressed concrete concerns. Some of them also express concerns that aren't concrete but given how things have shaped up in Washington I think it's valid. I know if I had to pay Washington prices on edibles I'd never use them, but $10 for a 375mg thc edible with my tolerance lasts for quite a few doses under the WA model each does is 10mg thc and you can't have more than 10 doses in a pack and they usually cost more than $20. So in Washington I'd have to pay twice as much for less than a 1/3 of the medicine. Selling massive dose edible to a recreational market is something that should probably be regulated because some recreational user from out of state who is in their 50s and hasn't consumed cannabis in decades is gonna buy the $10 brownie and just eat it, maybe share it with a friend. And then is going to think he overdosed on cannabis and is going to freak out. Then folks are gonna regulate the size of doses when for some of us those mega dose edibles are a way that we can kinda afffordably handle our needs. Yeah California isn't washington, but you could argue our state and local legislatures are a lot worse at proactive legislation and whatever bill we get is the bill we are going to be stuck with for 4-6 years.
KimDracula
Well-Known Member
So it seems to boil down to these concerns: the taxes and the limits on medicine and grows. Those seem to be the most concrete issues.
syrupy
Authorized Buyer
There's a few other points of concern:
CONSUMPTION: The initiative makes it lawful to smoke or ingest marijuana, but forbids consumption in any public place except for licensed dispensaries when authorized by local governments. “Public place” is commonly construed broadly to include any business or property that is open to the public. This will greatly reduce the locations where medical patients can inhale their medicine, as they can presently consume legally in streets and public areas where smoking is permitted.
VAPORIZERS RESTRICTED: The use of cannabis vaporizers and e-cigs is prohibited except in tobacco smoking areas (11362.3(c)), despite compelling scientific evidence that smokeless electronic vaporizers pose no public health hazard.
USE IN VEHICLES: Consumption or possession of an “open container” of marijuana or marijuana products is prohibited while driving or riding as a passenger in a motor vehicle, aircraft, vessel, or other transportation vehicle. It is not clear what constitutes an “open container” of marijuana, for example, in the case of edibles or e-cigs.
DRIVING WITH MARIJUANA: Sec. 11362.1 states that it is lawful for adults to transport marijuana. However, AUMA leaves standing a contrary existing law (VC 23222(b)) that makes it illegal to drive in possession of marijuana. Thus drivers could still be liable for arrest for transporting legally obtained marijuana in their car even if it was in a sealed container.
MINORS MAY BE SNITCHES: As in the alcohol industry, minors may be employed as peace officers to try to entrap marijuana dealers into illegal sales. (26140)
INSPECTIONS – The board and other law enforcement officers may inspect any place where marijuana is sold, cultivated, stored to assure taxes are collected. (34016).
CONSUMPTION: The initiative makes it lawful to smoke or ingest marijuana, but forbids consumption in any public place except for licensed dispensaries when authorized by local governments. “Public place” is commonly construed broadly to include any business or property that is open to the public. This will greatly reduce the locations where medical patients can inhale their medicine, as they can presently consume legally in streets and public areas where smoking is permitted.
VAPORIZERS RESTRICTED: The use of cannabis vaporizers and e-cigs is prohibited except in tobacco smoking areas (11362.3(c)), despite compelling scientific evidence that smokeless electronic vaporizers pose no public health hazard.
USE IN VEHICLES: Consumption or possession of an “open container” of marijuana or marijuana products is prohibited while driving or riding as a passenger in a motor vehicle, aircraft, vessel, or other transportation vehicle. It is not clear what constitutes an “open container” of marijuana, for example, in the case of edibles or e-cigs.
DRIVING WITH MARIJUANA: Sec. 11362.1 states that it is lawful for adults to transport marijuana. However, AUMA leaves standing a contrary existing law (VC 23222(b)) that makes it illegal to drive in possession of marijuana. Thus drivers could still be liable for arrest for transporting legally obtained marijuana in their car even if it was in a sealed container.
MINORS MAY BE SNITCHES: As in the alcohol industry, minors may be employed as peace officers to try to entrap marijuana dealers into illegal sales. (26140)
INSPECTIONS – The board and other law enforcement officers may inspect any place where marijuana is sold, cultivated, stored to assure taxes are collected. (34016).
CarolKing
Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
The cannabis that is sold maybe in prepackaged amount and sealed? In WA state the cannabis needs to be in the trunk or in the furthest area away from the front seat if you don't have a trunk. They will have to include in their law how a person would take their purchase home.
Edit
In WA state a single dose of cannabis for edibilble are 10 mg THC for edibles. So a regular user of cannabis would need several doses. Our edibles have doubled in price. For 100mg which is 10 doses the product Nasty Jacks went from $15 to $30 for a package of candy with our new medical cannabis system. Good thing I bought several packages before July 1. Our edibles now are too expensive for the medical patient.
I Just checked and good top shelf cannabis in the recreational stores are $14 a gram average. I had been paying $10 - $12 at the dispensaries bedore they closed. At some cannabis stores there is no discount for buying a whole ounce or a half. It's all $14 a gram which is pushing us back into the black market.
So a word to the wise be careful about your lawmakers attaching too high of taxes with your cannabis and cannabis products.
Edit
In WA state a single dose of cannabis for edibilble are 10 mg THC for edibles. So a regular user of cannabis would need several doses. Our edibles have doubled in price. For 100mg which is 10 doses the product Nasty Jacks went from $15 to $30 for a package of candy with our new medical cannabis system. Good thing I bought several packages before July 1. Our edibles now are too expensive for the medical patient.
I Just checked and good top shelf cannabis in the recreational stores are $14 a gram average. I had been paying $10 - $12 at the dispensaries bedore they closed. At some cannabis stores there is no discount for buying a whole ounce or a half. It's all $14 a gram which is pushing us back into the black market.
So a word to the wise be careful about your lawmakers attaching too high of taxes with your cannabis and cannabis products.
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syrupy
Authorized Buyer
If CalNorml is correct, even if it's sealed and unopened, there's a contradiction in CA law that could allow law enforcement to play it either way. It will certainly have to be addressed. Guess it will be a plus for delivery services?
Speaking of packaging, one thing I do like about AUMA is its intent to standardarize packaging and dosages of edibles, as well as requiring they be sold in child-proof containers.
Speaking of packaging, one thing I do like about AUMA is its intent to standardarize packaging and dosages of edibles, as well as requiring they be sold in child-proof containers.
Childproof packages will make it even harder for this patient to get medicine at times. Also any increase of regulation in edibles other than labeling requirements is gonna make the cost per mg thc skyrocket. Not just from taxes but from regulatory pressure.
syrupy
Authorized Buyer
I hear you, good points. But I think things like childproof packaging are what make this law more likely to pass. Politically, it's a bonus to have "child protection" given consideration. Also agree there would be lots of regulation that is costly, but I'd look forward to actual certification of things like organically-grown, pesticide-free, and peanut-free.
My hope is if cannabis became more widespread, the prices would eventually go down from where they are now. MMJ patients need their medicine, but if prices rise, will rec. users jump on board as quickly? It would be interesting to see what added competition would do to prices.
CarolKing
Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
If it's too costly for the average person or for a cannabis patient what is the point of having edibles, if only the folks with lots of money can afford to buy them.
The voters in California need to be diligent and make sure the law makers are accountable and do what the voters want. In WA state the lawmakers didn't listen to the cannabis patients. I'm really not sure if the folks on the state cannabis and liquor board know what they are doing.
At this point WA doesn't have a medical cannabis program it's mostly recreational. Folks can't get the CBD products that they want and need. It's too expensive to pursue medical cannabis because of all the regulations. It makes it too costly for the farmers. This has left the sick without any place to go.
WA state have let the patients down over the money that they can get from the taxes. I hope CA won't end up with the same problems that we have here in WA state.
The voters in California need to be diligent and make sure the law makers are accountable and do what the voters want. In WA state the lawmakers didn't listen to the cannabis patients. I'm really not sure if the folks on the state cannabis and liquor board know what they are doing.
At this point WA doesn't have a medical cannabis program it's mostly recreational. Folks can't get the CBD products that they want and need. It's too expensive to pursue medical cannabis because of all the regulations. It makes it too costly for the farmers. This has left the sick without any place to go.
WA state have let the patients down over the money that they can get from the taxes. I hope CA won't end up with the same problems that we have here in WA state.
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archangelz001
FIRE!!
Here is what a well-known grower, cannabis advocate, and Emerald Cup judge and personality from the Emerald Triangle has to say about Prop 64 (AUMA)
http://www.swamiselect.com/considering-prop-64/
http://www.swamiselect.com/considering-prop-64/
syrupy
Authorized Buyer
I feel his ambivalence.
CarolKing
Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
I hate to sound like a broken record but we were told also here in WA state that the recreational cannabis law wouldn't affect the medical cannabis. We were lied to by many. I wish you a better system than what we have. I'm afraid some patients will have to travel to OR to get the CBD strains that they need. It's a crime by the lawmakers here. I'm so angry about the medical cannabis stores that have been busted over the last few weeks.
The folks at my cannabis market were told they had some time to sell off some of their medical and they were raided of cannabis, creams, edibles and cash. Technically the police have stolen from them. They will be going out of business. The state didn't give them a lisence thanks to our fucked up system.
They have been medical advocates for 6 years. They also give away free cannabis and oil to patients.
Next it will be the illegal grows that will be busted. Some farmers will continue to grow even though it will be at a risk. Pass this at great scrutiny. Make sure the cannabis patients are well protected.
Between this and Donald Trump I'm so pissed.
It takes so long once something is passed and put into practice when it comes to cannabis. All the hoops to jump through and all the regulations. Everybody will have their hands out wanting their part of the tax revenue.
Make sure they allow enough cannabis to be grown and enough stores throughout the state that will be able to sell. Some areas of WA state won't even allow cannabis to be sold even though the voters voted for legal. What are the sick suppose to do?
The folks at my cannabis market were told they had some time to sell off some of their medical and they were raided of cannabis, creams, edibles and cash. Technically the police have stolen from them. They will be going out of business. The state didn't give them a lisence thanks to our fucked up system.
They have been medical advocates for 6 years. They also give away free cannabis and oil to patients.
Next it will be the illegal grows that will be busted. Some farmers will continue to grow even though it will be at a risk. Pass this at great scrutiny. Make sure the cannabis patients are well protected.
Between this and Donald Trump I'm so pissed.
It takes so long once something is passed and put into practice when it comes to cannabis. All the hoops to jump through and all the regulations. Everybody will have their hands out wanting their part of the tax revenue.
Make sure they allow enough cannabis to be grown and enough stores throughout the state that will be able to sell. Some areas of WA state won't even allow cannabis to be sold even though the voters voted for legal. What are the sick suppose to do?
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