Divine Tribe atty's

DrNick420

Well-Known Member
@Vape Donkey 650
There is no reason i'm scared to. The only reason I haven't run mine yet in TC is because i love it so much (and it's my only concentrate vape) and there are no known cases of running at 12w constant causing any harm the DT, whereas some people have had donuts burn out in TC mode, if i am not mistaken.

I am waiting on my 2nd and 3rd DT 2.7's to be delivered , once i have spares around I will run it in TC mode all the time, cause if something happens to one i'll have backups ready.

More importantly I would like to know what battery units you consider to be superior to the eleaf for TC, if there is something far superior that will make my life a lot better or my DT experience better, i would definitely like to know, because as far as I can tell, the eleaf treats the DT the same way in TC mode as anything else would.
 
DrNick420,

Vape Donkey 650

All vape, no smoke please.
Ok suit yourself man.... Maybe you wouldn't have a ton of oil leaked down into your 510 threads if you vaped on TC mode instead of VW, because the oil would be more quickly and effectively vaped, almost immediately, instead of waiting for 4 seconds to be heated up. The combination of the timing and sequence of heating the oil and when/how the user draws on the mouthpiece can make a huge difference in how much effective vapor you will get for a particular load. Alot has seeped down partially from the overheating of the atomizer base at 12 fixed watts. It doesn't get nearly as hot on TC mode (or combust)

But more important for that is you learning how to load it properly, appareantly.

Once you finally get to using TC mode, sweet Nicolas, you will be jumping through hoops, imploring us, why did we not tell you sooner?

Well, I'm on the record now. ;)

Edit: you edited what I responded to, but all these people who have burned out their donuts running high watts on tc mode, well I'd like to see them. There are lots of other things that can bust your donut besides giving > 12w in TC, and ive got boatloads of anecdotal and personal evidence that using higher watts in a proper tc mod is just fine ;) Including with your istick

Tc mode is actually much safer (for your oil) because even if you set an unnecessarily high wattage, the mod only discharges that for a fraction of a second
 
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Vape Donkey 650,

Vape Donkey 650

All vape, no smoke please.
I'm sure it's "safe" but will it be good enough for the all-glass-airpaths around these days...

Well, the all-glass purists could be slightly more satisfied with my rig... let me debut the upgraded

all glass and silicon (medical grade) dab rig elbow for DT 2.5 :rockon:

pBJWctH.jpg


WZ5w2lD.jpg

Sits fine with the tall cuboid

BfXKpu2.jpg

Or with the short pico, because of the slight flexibility of the large hose.

I can't get my hands on as many of these glass elbows as I would like, so my other rigs still have the copper elbows for now.

I named my rigs now:

Left :
D020 (that was his "shelter name")
Infamous to FCer's

Middle: Dabby (or Dabigail) was the first bong I ever bought, first attached to a crappy vape pen, later donuts. Airflow limited with the small log-perc with only 6 slots, but I like the bent camel-hump neck, and large capacity. Still my best rig for large puffs

Right: Dabitha. Nice honeycomb perc, good airflow, but I don't like how the neck comes from the top (no camel hump) I use dabitha exclusively for CO2 oils.

I cleaned Dabby's skull glass globe for the photo shoot :p
CTSuWqf.jpg



I was just asking what a better battery for TC than the eleaf was...

Have you really been reading the back pages on this thread of ours, Nicky? :suspicious:


evic VTC, VTwo Mini, Cuboid, Cuboid Mini, eleaf pico, istick 100w TC, wisemec presa (and probably several others I don't know of) all work beautifully with the DT on TC mode. These are just the ones we tend to like and talk about in this little thread.

The common features that all of these mods have is the ability to set max watts in temp control mode, TCR mode (istick 100w?), and (not as equally among these mods) quick, accurate, responsive resistance sensors and software that modulate the wattage in temp control properly.

And what do these swift and accurate sensors on these mods allow you to do? :huh:

They allow you to safely run Temp control at higher wattages than 12w.
(without burning a little bit of oil like the istick 40w on TC mode)


No problem. No sweat. ;)

Bigger hits, less waste, less waiting. No compromise. Nothing is lost or sacrificed. :tup:

Concentrate vapers have moved away from the cloud-chaser fetiche

Hahaha fetiche...your french vacation is showing. :lol:

But the Joyetechs rule IMHO, e.g. they display the changing resistance as temp rises.

This is one of my favorite features of the joyetechs, over the eleafs. Sure, it's just information, but it is really the most key piece of info the mod uses.

Some of us TC nerds like to know not just the base resistance of our atomizers, but also the hot resistance we want them to be at our favorite temperatures. Being able to see this on your mod helps us fine-tune our TC temps, and offers reassurance that our mods and atty's are working right, when the hot-resistance is displaying what we want it to be. :nod:

And this is just my gut feeling, but I think the eleafs are a little more sluggish and oafish ;) in how quickly they modulate the wattages in temp control; sensing atomizer resistance rise and reacting to it. I would need oscilliscope charts to prove this, however. :(

Hey, I just updated my PICO to version 1.01 and it was easy on my hackintosh. It just reset my settings.

Nice...first one for the little pico, Gonna go check it out now.

But, since this software doesn't come from joyetech, I'm not expecting much, or regular updates.

OK, so 30-40mg of concentrate. What is 30-40 mg of concentrate? 1/30 to 1/25 of a gram. Less than a BB's worth.

I don't think many of us have scales that can accurately measure milligrams, but how do I know you're right?

Well, when I start vaping a fresh gram, it seems I can get at least 20-30 reloads on the donut before it's all gone. I'm not keeping count, and each scoop of crumble/shatter will be a little different in size, but it's a good rule of thumb. :tup:

So you see that with a proper Temperature Regulated atomizer the idea of the pinhead, loading lightly and often, is pharmacologically sound. If there are gobs of resin pouring down into the device, you're wasting incredible amounts of it. That's like the kid whose parents scolded him for wasting food, and he offered to put it in an envelope and send it to India. So put that drippy donut rig in an envelope and send it to me!

What are you saying? You want nick to mail his smelly reclaimy combusted atty to you in the mail? Yuck :D:p

I don't have the Saionara, but clearly you can use the device as-is, without changing coils. And since there's a Nickel head, you should be able to run that in TC mode, which would hugely prolong the life of the coil. I'm not a huge fan of Nickel and prefer other TC metals, but in any case this whole TC thing is a total game changer in how long atomizers last.

You should ask Matt if the coils are easily rebuilt, and what replacements he offers. Some Ti + SS claptons would be interesting. I'm not sure this is the most convenient platform for winding your own coils. Standard RDAs give better access, but I guess the advantage here is the fact that the coil sits in a cup.

There are cheap ready-made coils-in-a-cup heads that have been used in "globe pen rigs" for years, and some by now must be TC capable. But the fact that the DT ceramic donut atomizer has all this following suggests that it's a superior design.

All the reviewers are saying the nickel coil for TC sucks, the kanthal is the only one worth using.

The coils are not rebuildable. They are replace-able, like typical micro-skillet glass globe atomizers.

Due to the dubious-ness of TC on kanthal coils, and the inferior vapor taste compared to the DT donut, I'm gonna respectfully pass on this one, and wait patiently for the 3.0's. :nod: Contrary to what some may think, with my high-watt advocacy, I value vape quality much more than quantity.

Mod note: Four posts merged
 
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Vape Donkey 650,

tharealmclovin

Well-Known Member
Not sure if you have a reason to go for something other than the eleaf tc40... there are probably better/fancier mods out there but for $50 for that battery and a DT 2.7 bundle it's really hard to beat.

Were you looking at the cuboid to replace the battery in it? The tc40w gets killer battery life (several days including cleaning burnoffs for me) but i hear you if you want/ need more battery power or the replacable cells. I was going to avoid the tc40w for that reason but decided to get it being the recommended battery unit by DT. have'nt been let down.

I currently have the evic VTC mini and the cuboid seems like the next logical step. With my DT it works great, but I switch to other vapes often. Using my portable enail I drain my batteries pretty quickly.

This is the only thread talking TC so figured I'd ask here.
 

mutten840

Well-Known Member
@tharealmclovin I have both the mini and the cuboid. The cuboid is just a 2 battery version of the mini and I like using it when I want to extend battery life. It is a bit bigger, but nothing major and between the mini and the cuboid. I am covered. If you have the mini the cuboid will have the same settings, so nothing needed to learn other than how long the dual batteries can last you :tup:
 

Baron23

Well-Known Member
Wow, not sure I have time to read all of this, but as I believe I mentioned somewhere in here before, I run an iStick 100 TC with the 2.5/2.7 atomizers and run it in TCR mode with Ni selected (per Matt's recommendation).

I'm not an expert on TCR but understand the concept. I believe that the reason TC mode is easier on your coil is that it responds based on your draw. I can see out of the corner of my eye where the iStick turns off if at temp (says 'over temperature' or something like that) and if I draw harder it will put the juice back on.

Seems to work great. I've had this atomizer for about 6 months now and it still going strong. I tend to run from 350-365 for light tasty vapor stepping up to 410-420 max to get the last of it. Probably hanging at 385-390 the most.

I have not found that TC mode does anything good for the potential for oil to migrate into the 510 fitting. Looking at these atomizers (and just about every other one made) you can easily see the air holes on the inside of the oven leading to the space between the double walls of the unit. When well used (and I ONLY load BB sized loads) oil vapor and maybe the shatter itself migrates between these walls and will drop down and leak out of the hole in the 510 fitting. I believe that these holes in the 510 fitting (on DT and like I said, just about every other one out there) is for assembly purposes...allows them to get in there to solder the leads to the coil, maybe. I don't know this for certain, just speculation. But concentrate has leaked out of my 510 fitting and I did have to clean it up.

I have learned I need to periodically clean out my atomizers. If I start to get leakage at all (and there are early warning signs in my experience) I turn it on 420 in TC mode with the mouthpiece off and melt reclaim into a silicone dab container. I have gotten quite a bit of reclaim out this way and while it doesn't necessarily taste great (and its sticky as can be), it is potent...at least to me.

I am not an expert in any of this and am open to new knowledge, but time limits my ability to read very large threads so if I said something stupid or refuted concretely elsewhere in the thread, please just point it out to me (kindly, if you will LOL).

Cheers
 

DrNick420

Well-Known Member
@tharealmclovin I have both the mini and the cuboid. The cuboid is just a 2 battery version of the mini and I like using it when I want to extend battery life. It is a bit bigger, but nothing major and between the mini and the cuboid. I am covered. If you have the mini the cuboid will have the same settings, so nothing needed to learn other than how long the dual batteries can last you :tup:

I have a couple questions if that's okay,

1. Between the VTC and the Cuboid, can you set the maximum wattage for TC mode on either the VTC or Cuboids? judging from @tharealmclovin post it sounds like the Cuboid is the "natural step up" so should I just go straight for that?

2. What is really the major difference in the Cuboid and VTC mini? As far as i can tell they're both joyetech, upgradable firmware, and have similar UI's. They even seem to be roughtly the same size.

@Baron23 how are you melting it out, turning it upside down and pressing the button?
 
DrNick420,

mutten840

Well-Known Member
@DrNick420 The Cuboid mini is just a double battery version of the vtc mini. They are identical in settings and I tend to use my cuboid mini more than the vtc mini. But love them both none the less. Tons of settings and firmware updatable is all kinds of goodness for the end user =)
 
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DrNick420

Well-Known Member
@DrNick420 The Cuboid mini is just a double battery version of the vtc mini. They are identical in settings and I tend to use my cuboid mini more than the vtc mini. But love them both none the less. Tons of settings and firmware updatable is all kinds of goodness for the end user =)

Same UI though, no features no matter how small missing from the firmware of one device to the other? It seemed to me that they were otherwise identical but wanted the word from someone who's actually used both. Ecig people reviews are more or less useless to me cause I dont care if it can push your crazy clouds at 100w...

It seems like the Cuboid is the way to go for a TC mod that is better than the Eleaf.

Thanks bro :tup:
 
DrNick420,

mutten840

Well-Known Member
@DrNick420 I am not a huge Ecig person. But can contest to the 2 having all the same features and flow in settings. The only difference is the shape and button placement due to one being a single 18650 battery and the other being a dual 18650 battery. This is the reason I got both as I did not want to have to remember 2 devices settings.

One key takeaway here that I initially missed. There is a cuboid and a cuboid mini. I am talking about the cuboid mini and the vtc mini.
 
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fernand

Well-Known Member
One more way to look at the more modern TC units like the eVic, cuboid etc over the older TC mods.

The newer designs like the eVic and cuboid in TC mode limit both wattage and temperature simultaneously. So if either the wattage is reached, or the temperature, it backs off. That's perfect.

Here's the worst case TC scenario:
The unit drops out of TC mode and if the wattage has no limit, it hits with full power and burns the atomizer.

Why would it drop out of TC?
If the atomizer resistance exceeds the mod's max ohm capability. For the updated evic and cuboid that's 1.5 ohms, for the istick TC40 I believe that's still 1.0 ohms.

Why would it exceed 1.0 ohms?
Because as they age the DT atomizers increase in resistance. They start out around 0.8 ohms.

We used to feather the button to avoid burning stuff. A good TC rig now does it for you.

Matt started out not fully understanding Temp Control and why they'd drop out of TC mode. Meanwhile the technology has matured.
 

DrNick420

Well-Known Member
Better in what way?
That's kind of what I've been trying to find out in my questions here, but it seem like the TC mode on the Joyetechs are more configurable and have more options, i guess it is power user stuff? That is my understanding of it...

Also the ability to lock in both temperature and wattage to not go higherr than you want on wattage.
 
DrNick420,

Vape Donkey 650

All vape, no smoke please.
Wow, not sure I have time to read all of this, but as I believe I mentioned somewhere in here before, I run an iStick 100 TC with the 2.5/2.7 atomizers and run it in TCR mode with Ni selected (per Matt's recommendation).

I'm not an expert on TCR but understand the concept. I believe that the reason TC mode is easier on your coil is that it responds based on your draw. I can see out of the corner of my eye where the iStick turns off if at temp (says 'over temperature' or something like that) and if I draw harder it will put the juice back on.

Nice post :clap: This is also something I notice on all my TC mods. I get to hold them at arms-length from my face when I use them on any of my rigs so I can see the screens easily. After a fresh load, early in the hit, the watts are higher, and when the donut is more empty it usually cruises along at 7w or so.

But if I play around with it, and suddenly draw much harder through my rig, the watts will instantly climb up. I can make it go up 2-3w easily just by pulling harder. If I make it go up 4-5w just from my breath, I'll probably just cough or splatter my globe more, :ko: but i've done that just to prove to myself the responsiveness of TC :D :tup:

That just goes to show that the air you pull through the generous air intake paths on the DT donut can significantly cool the donut and oil temps, and a good TC mod factors in for this automatically, which is another idiot-proof, user-friendly, built-in feature of any good TC setup.

I have not found that TC mode does anything good for the potential for oil to migrate into the 510 fitting. Looking at these atomizers (and just about every other one made) you can easily see the air holes on the inside of the oven leading to the space between the double walls of the unit. When well used (and I ONLY load BB sized loads) oil vapor and maybe the shatter itself migrates between these walls and will drop down and leak out of the hole in the 510 fitting. I believe that these holes in the 510 fitting (on DT and like I said, just about every other one out there) is for assembly purposes...allows them to get in there to solder the leads to the coil, maybe. I don't know this for certain, just speculation. But concentrate has leaked out of my 510 fitting and I did have to clean it up.

The holes in the ceramic cup are for 2 purposes: airflow, and to give the wires (leads) on the donuts a place to come in to the cup and go down to the metal 510 base and pin.

The donut and wires is essentially a single, mass produced piece; replaceable in theory but not rebuildable. It is placed in the cup, wires poking through the holes, and fixed to the metal contacts on the base. Nothing is soldered during the assembly process.


I have learned I need to periodically clean out my atomizers. If I start to get leakage at all (and there are early warning signs in my experience) I turn it on 420 in TC mode with the mouthpiece off and melt reclaim into a silicone dab container. I have gotten quite a bit of reclaim out this way and while it doesn't necessarily taste great (and its sticky as can be), it is potent...at least to me.

I am not an expert in any of this and am open to new knowledge, but time limits my ability to read very large threads so if I said something stupid or refuted concretely elsewhere in the thread, please just point it out to me (kindly, if you will LOL).

Cheers

That's one way to reclaim that reclaim ;) It seems you've learned your lesson about loading it and how to hit it, by now. Another hint not being mentioned much recently:

when you load a bowl, vape it to completion

the 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc, hit may not be as tasty as the first couple hits, but its still mostly thc and worthy! Don't reload more nugs / shards of shatter over your donut bowl if its still giving decent clouds!

finish your vegetables.

If you're snobbishly above vaping these mid-session clouds because they don't taste so immaculate, then clean your donut off, burn it off in VW, something, somehow, whatever.

If you just keep reloading, you will get leakage.


@Baron23 how are you melting it out, turning it upside down and pressing the button?

Yes, Nick. Also it helps to hold one air hole while you blow through the other to encourage the oil to leak down.

I'm sorry man, but are you capable of researching anything at all? :uhh: We're all trying to help you out here, but every single thing you've asked in the last few pages could be easily answered / looked up at:

1. ineedhemp.com - where you bought this stuff? matt has videos and instructions posted on many of the item listings

2. joyetech / eleaf websites - they give you detailed info on all their mods

3. this website! this thread! we are literally repeating the same answers to the same questions every 3 pages or so! :bang:

Someone go count for me, just in the past 10 pages, how many times has OF said:

TCR 245, 390F, 12W

What settings to use, how to load it, how to puff/draw on it, how to clean it, what mods are best to use, all these questions have been answered many times, often in great detail. Steven, OF, and fernand have pulled most of the heft in answering these FAQ's

I'm really thinking we should collaborate and draft a detailed user-manual / FAQ for the DT donut, post it up for all to see, make it official.... :sherlock:
 
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Baron23

Well-Known Member
That's kind of what I've been trying to find out in my questions here, but it seem like the TC mode on the Joyetechs are more configurable and have more options, i guess it is power user stuff? That is my understanding of it...

Also the ability to lock in both temperature and wattage to not go higherr than you want on wattage.

Yeah, I get that with the brand new boxes you can limit by both temp measurement (TCR calculation) and by a Wattage limit (which will take into account your changing resistance with age). But to me this is gilding the Lilly just a bit and has not provide sufficient reason to upgrade my iStick 100 TC which works quite well. I understand that this is an interesting topic for people with that type of mentality, but at the end of the day, all we are doing is boiling a substance that's pretty volatile to start with...right?. Sometimes I think we lose sight of the practical aspects here.

And I also get that maybe with age you can get one of these donuts to the point there they exceed 1 ohm and may give some boxes trouble....but I have not had that experience.

I don't believe that my Eleaf can limit by both metrics (temp and W) at the same time (but I need to look at the manual again). But I know I can manually set a value for TCR to, for example, the 245 recommended above. However, I really don't understand these values as the actually TCR value for pure Ni200 is about 0.006. That means that for every °C hotter a Ni200 wire gets, its resistance rises by (0.006 * <starting resistance>) in ohms. The 245 fits into the range allowed by my Eleaf, but not sure how this values actually equates to the Ni TCR of .006. I need to read the manual again, I think.

At the time I bought my atomizers, Matt said just us Ni setting which in turn sets the TCR value (although I don't know what value is used). Has this changed? Why manually set 245

Bit dated but nice article on the subject?

https://spinfuel.com/temperature-coefficients-coil-wires/
 
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insideoutman

yo-coco-canna-nut-gurt
a clean donut is a happy donut...

after doing several passes of intermediary cleaning, mine is looking purdy :)

been rockin' 245 TCR, 12W 390-420F, sometimes 235/12.5/420 to finish up a load ;) [2.7 donut/ battery powered, proudly atop a VTwo Mini. I need another one of those lol ]

(and yea, scan back a few pages at the very least people, this thread is complete as far as Im concerned - its got all the info needed, except maybe some more DC discussion..and the off-gassing results) ::Cough:: until V3! :D!
 
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fernand

Well-Known Member
The Joyetech ability to display changing resistance during operation is critical if you ever want to calculate a TCR value for a particular atomizer. It's very difficult to measure that resistance under fire any other way.

To calculate TCR you have to know the starting temperature, the coil resistance at that start, the resistance when a given temp is reached, and a measurement (not a display) of that reached temp.

That last value can be measured with a thermocouple, or an IR gun set to an emissivity of 0.50 for a whitish donut. If you use the mod's displayed target temp instead, you can't detect by how much the regulation is off.

@Baron23 the actual TCR value is multiplied by 10^5 to give the 0-1000 range settable on the mods. Thus the famous 245 setting was actually calculated as 0.00245.
 

matthend

Well-Known Member
been running my 2.7 on the istick tc40 for the past few months in purely tc mode (other than cleaning) without issue. It hits and tastes great at 300, and I am a happy camper (aside from sishing i would have ordered the shallow version for ease of loading) My wife is not sold on it though, as she feels it very much pales in comparison to an actual dab of the same size. I would love to find something that she would like to use when we are out and about. I am wondering about the saionara, or if I should wait for the 3.0 DT to come out? Or would I just be better served keeping this and picking up one of the KT 510 nails that was previously mentioned in this thread until the 3.0 comes out?
 

PoopMachine

Well-Known Member
ok, I assume this will run on my istick also?

It should. Im running mine at 23W. They tell you to run it at 25.

Ive said it before, this thing hits like a truck and just chews through wax. By the time you realize you're in trouble taking a draw, you're hosed. Prepare for epic coughing fit. One and done, baby!

Also, the coils are cheap from Matt.. like $8.00ea or something? I bought all the coils they have for the unit just in case.
 
PoopMachine,

OF

Well-Known Member
Looking to purchase a Cuboid so I don't run out of power. Is there another mod I should check out before I order? Where's the best place to purchase Joytech?

You get a useful 'battery meter' on most of these mods, and most support the 'press the fire button and down button for several seconds while locked out (in standby) and it'll show the exact voltage remaining' feature. If you pay attention you should not get caught 'with an empty gas tank'?

That said, a second 18650 doubles run time every time? Along with Cuboid I suggest considering the iStick TC100W. It is a bit flatter and lighter and uses the 18650s in parallel (not series like Cuboid) so you can run only one and keep your stash on the other side if you wish. Otherwise it's basically a bigger Pico in operations and controls. Also, if you're really a real man you might consider the RX200. Unlike the others it's not a Joytech product (I think, it's pretty confusing.....) but it uses 3, count them 3, 18650s in a surprisingly compact package and 200 Watts of which we can use the first dozen.

Edit: I just remembered another neat feature of the TC100W, there's no fire button! One side is spring loaded, you squeeze it to fire it off. No button to find to get it going. The lockout is mechanical as well in addition to the normal one 'in software'.

OF


Who knows what the best place is, I've bought some from GearBest. While I've had no real trouble (a couple slow shipments) they are 'offshore'. I've had great business with these guys, bought several Picos from them, good prices and fast shipping, no problems at all.

Good luck with your choice, sounds like you're on the right track.

One more way to look at the more modern TC units like the eVic, cuboid etc over the older TC mods.

The newer designs like the eVic and cuboid in TC mode limit both wattage and temperature simultaneously. So if either the wattage is reached, or the temperature, it backs off. That's perfect.

Here's the worst case TC scenario:
The unit drops out of TC mode and if the wattage has no limit, it hits with full power and burns the atomizer.

Excellent point, and well put as usual. This (tendency to slip out of TC mode) is what keeps killing my efforts to run the DC herb atty in TC mode. Not done 'right' slipping into 75 W VW mode will light up a doughnut before you know you have a problem. No need to take the risk IMO. Stick with the mods that let you set a useful power protection level as a backup.

OF
 
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Vape Donkey 650

All vape, no smoke please.
I understand that this is an interesting topic for people with that type of mentality, but at the end of the day, all we are doing is boiling a substance that's pretty volatile to start with...right?. Sometimes I think we lose sight of the practical aspects here.

Yes, we are trying to boil (vape) several substances in our oil that are quite volatile and easily degraded. But that's the point you may be missing, we only want to boil it: we don't want to combust it or degrade it through pyrolysis. Doing that to our substances transforms them from lovely, tasty, therapeutic compounds into nasty, harmful, foul compounds.

Using TC makes it easy to only make vapor from your oil, and not burn it and make smoke.

Semantic backup: vapor is not smoke

Smoke has vapor in it, and also particulates, carcinogens, tar, etc

Vapor is just one of the forms of matter than nearly any substance can take: gaseous

I can speak for myself and several of the guys here: I just want pure vapor, not smoke

Using your mod in VW mode, or a poorly tuned TC setup will inevitably combust some or alot of your oil, not just boil it.

And your istick 100w can set max watts in TC mode

;):tup:

However, I really don't understand these values as the actually TCR value for pure Ni200 is about 0.006. That means that for every °C hotter a Ni200 wire gets, its resistance rises by (0.006 * <starting resistance>) in ohms. The 245 fits into the range allowed by my Eleaf, but not sure how this values actually equates to the Ni TCR of .006. I need to read the manual again, I think.

At the time I bought my atomizers, Matt said just us Ni setting which in turn sets the TCR value (although I don't know what value is used). Has this changed? Why manually set 245

From what I am told, the wire in DT donuts is nichrome, not nickel. And it does work fine in TC-Ni mode, which, depending on what brand / model / firmware your mod has, can represent a TCR # somewhere between 600-700, IIRC.

DT donuts work fine in TC-Ni mode, but our resident dab scientists fernand and OF have observed with thermocouples and infrared thermometers that the temperatures of our donuts on TC-Ni mode is much higher than what the display says, due to the functional mismatch of our donut's' materials and TC-Ni mode.

We only need to heat our oil to around 320F to vape it, but the wire must get much hotter than 320F to transfer enough heat through the ceramic disc and then to the oil to raise the oil's heat to vaporization range.

TC mods are intended to report the temperature of coil wires, but not how hot it makes your juice. The extra layer of ceramic insulation that we have on our coils helps explain why we need this extra heat to make substantial vape from our oil, and also why the donut+coil seems to work more accurately with a very low TCR that is closer to the titanium range rather than the nickel range.

I hope this makes sense...maybe OF can re-explain this if it doesn't? :huh:

Re-edit: we set TCR to 245 only so the numbers we see flashing on our mod during use are more accurate to the actual temp the coil / donut is reaching. I also feel we gain a little bit more fine-control over temps this way vs TC-Ni.

Why would it exceed 1.0 ohms?
Because as they age the DT atomizers increase in resistance. They start out around 0.8 ohms.

I'm not denying what you are saying here outright, but I have never observed this in my usage of dozens of donuts, some of them over the course of over a year. Mine tend to stay very steady, with only the slight variation of different mods measuring the same base differently, within a small margin of +/- 0.02 ohm.

The few "old soldiers" I have that actually did change resistance, actually went down a tiny bit.. no more than 0.02-0.03 lower.

The several instances I have observed of donut cold resistance very quickly going up was clearly from my overzealous and aggressive cleaning / scraping efforts with q-tips or metal dabs tools on the donut itself or the ceramic cup holding it.

Scrape or disturb the donut too much, or twist the ceramic cup too much, a 0.68 base may suddenly turn into a 0.90, or a 0.80 becomes 0.88. Left to sit for a while, it almost always settles back to its original, low resistance.

I can't be certain, but my guess is that this resistance change results from the contact that the wire leads of the donut makes with the metal base being moved/ distrubed / interupted. From making a nice solid contact, to having a less secure metal-on-metal contact.

The wire leads on the 2.0/2.5 donut are not soldered or screwed or firmly fixed to their contact points. Only a weak tuck-in with a silicon gasket holds the wire where it's supposed to be.

Poking around the donut appears to move the wire leads. Sometimes if will short out completely, reading 0.00, but you can bring it back by poking / twisting some more. Most of my donuts will always read the same no matter how harsh I am in cleaning it, others are more sensitive. I blame it on inconsistent assembly at the donut factory in shenzhen. :shrug:

Matt started out not fully understanding Temp Control and why they'd drop out of TC mode. Meanwhile the technology has matured.

Yup, the emergence of massively available, affordable, functional TC mods on the market magically coincided with the release of the v2.0 DT donut. Matt didn't design these things with TC in mind, but this e-cigg'er technology has readily adapted to us kushers, with our extra insulation and more delicate compounds. :luv:

Barely a week goes by now when I don't learn something new about TC, or when I'm not trying to digest new TC mods and features

(and yea, scan back a few pages at the very least people, this thread is complete as far as Im concerned - its got all the info needed, except maybe some more DC discussion..and the off-gassing results) ::Cough:: until V3! :D!

Right? :DMaybe not alllll the info you need, but pretty damn close!!!

I think we can geek-on about TC stuff forever and uncover new stuff still.

The issue of oil leakdown has not been thoroughly disseminated, and can still be constructively discussed further, i think.


This (tendency to slip out of TC mode) is what keeps killing my efforts to run the DC herb atty in TC mode. Not done 'right' slipping into 75 W VW mode will light up a doughnut before you know you have a problem. No need to take the risk IMO. Stick with the mods that let you set a useful power protection level as a backup.

OF

OF, I'm really getting the idea that you are not reading my posts. Are they too long? :huh:

I shared my results of successful, repeated TC on the DC with us all here several pages back.

Erka renewed my interest in this atty, which could have stood for "Dust Collector" :cry:

Her idea of pre-warming the atty before switching to the TC mode you want to use is the key.

Try this: I bet you it will work: has nothing to do with high resistance, it seems.

25-35w or so - whatever you feel is appropriate
Start in TC-SS mode - 500F maybe? Hold the button down for 10 seconds, at least 3 times. For a 30 second or so warmup. It should hold TC here.

Immediately Switch to TC-Ti: Around 380-400 is a good minimum temp to start, and you can vape on this mode, although we can surmise the temps we are seeing on the screen has little to do with the temps of our flowers inside the oven

Lastly, after it is warm. you can go from TC-Ti to TC-Ni, which is presumably where we want to vape on from the beginning? And maybe TC-Ni is the pre-set mode whose displayed temps might be closest to accurate for this atty?

Sometimes you can jump straight from TC-SS to TC-Ni, but other times you must do TC-Ti as an intermediate step.

I have repeated this dozens of times now, and the only way to make it fail is to not pre-warm enough in TC-SS, or to try vaping from TC-Ti or TC-Ni from the very beginning.

I have done this mostly on the pico, but also on the cuboid mini, where I recall seeing hot coil resistance rising to within 1.2-1.3 ohm with little fluctuation. This is clearly within the TC resistance limit of these mods, so I'm thinking the finicky TC performance of the DC is not caused by high resistance, or maybe partially caused.:hmm:
 
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