Discontinued Zion vaporizer
- Thread starter lwien
- Start date
Mulehead
Well-Known Member
So is the mica heating up as well? And basically just preheating air as it passes thru the three panels before entering the heater?
TIA
Madcap79
Jack of all trades, master of none.
Mica is part of the heater as I understand it. I don't have as much knowledge as @Shit Snacks though.
Mulehead
Well-Known Member
Iirc the mica also acts as a heat shield? I remember Ryan was trying stainless steel until mica was suggested here as an inert alternative.
The mica must also act as a heat sink of sorts too?
On back to back bowls, vapor production on my unit is crazy.
Which is either that RBT magic, or the intake air is getting preheated by the mica?
So @Shit Snacks, the Mi has no mica? Or not as many panels?
I'm so intrigued by the inner workings, and how these devices are pumping out so much vapor, while keeping such a simple design!
Mulehead
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure if I want to see a chinese zion in the next 6 months nor if it's wise to incite people to try to infringe on RBT patent...
Then what the hell do we talk about until more units make it out? More RBT bashing??
I'm fucking over the tip toeing around here. Does he have a patent or not?
We talk about, dismantle, photograph internals on every other vape manufacturers threads on FC. Why is this one any different?
Edit: you beat me to it @Madcap79 lol
Madcap79
Jack of all trades, master of none.
Glad I'm not the only one who noticed.
AJS
Calm Consistency
I wonder, at this point with all the refunds, how many of us are left on the preorder train. I haven't been on long, about 3 months for me, but some of you are nearing a year in a few months?
I've said it once and I'll say it again, I'm glad everything is going smoothly over at RBT, and now he can take his time and perfect the Zion into the vape it deserves to be. It'll be so exciting once units start rolling out!
I've said it once and I'll say it again, I'm glad everything is going smoothly over at RBT, and now he can take his time and perfect the Zion into the vape it deserves to be. It'll be so exciting once units start rolling out!
Shit Snacks
Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAA! (TM2/TP80/BAK/FW9)
The mica is an insulator, early units like Kero's alpha had glass as an insulator but it was too much of a heat sink for lower temps, the mica does not conduct as much heat as the glass (or the steel heating element). The mica has one piece of mica holding up the steel, separating it into two halves (was glass) in the original Zions and now the Milaana. Production Zions have 3 smaller pieces of mica that support the SS heating element in a special orientation for smoother vapor and more even extraction, all together that makes up Zion heater technology.
Does that clear up a bit? Sorry if it seems vague, unsure of patent status but that is the gist, whilst leaving out the key of what makes the heating element itself have such a massive surface area. Agreed we should be able to discuss the secret sauce at least in some way
Mulehead
Well-Known Member
Sounds similar to the glass core vs. Teflon core on the MV.
The glass core runs hotter which effects flavor.
So the mica is a multitasker.
An insulator, a slight heat sink, (would you say?), a heater prop, and it directs the air flow?
Thanks shitsnacks, this is exactly the info I was looking for.
So on back to back bowls, the heater and glass retaining heat are mainly what's helping production, and beastly performance?
Mica is an insulator, so it doesn't retain heat making it the opposite of a heat sink.
Mulehead
Well-Known Member
Mica is an insulator, so it doesn't retain heat making it the opposite of a heat sink.
Thanks Stu
That's where I was getting confused, insulators don't make for a good heat sink.
Is the insulation more for keeping the heat in for more heat soak, or to protect the wood from charring?
So do the early models body get hot to the touch @KeroZen that have the glass as an insulator?
Mine just starts to get warm (at heater location behind wood?) on back-back bowls.
Nothing compared to a heat soaked e-nano tho.
hweezi
formally cwheezy
Am I the only one who can't freaking wait for him to move on to a desktop, I honestly would have said screw the milaana, isn't the main difficulty of this is making it portable ?
I'm actually surprised there isn't an on demand convection plug-in vape yet, at least not that I can think of, and this is the only kind of tech I would want in one. Imagine having it the size of/or smaller than a Nano.
Pick 'er up, plop 'er on, press the button! You don't leave it heat soaked unless you want it to be. No anxiety of your cat knocking over your log when your not around or what not. I don't have a cat so that's not my issue. My nano serves me great 24/7 so I don't know why I'd like this so much, I think you'd have the best of the manual and regulated world.
It could be like the e-nail of plug-in convection vapes! (like style and design wise is what I was thinking)
Just spit ballin', glad the feel of this thread is starting to feel a little more like the way it was before October. I guess most of us still hanging on are over it and just want anything moving forward.
The milaana has shown that, honestly anything is better than nothing.
I'm actually surprised there isn't an on demand convection plug-in vape yet, at least not that I can think of, and this is the only kind of tech I would want in one. Imagine having it the size of/or smaller than a Nano.
Pick 'er up, plop 'er on, press the button! You don't leave it heat soaked unless you want it to be. No anxiety of your cat knocking over your log when your not around or what not. I don't have a cat so that's not my issue. My nano serves me great 24/7 so I don't know why I'd like this so much, I think you'd have the best of the manual and regulated world.
It could be like the e-nail of plug-in convection vapes! (like style and design wise is what I was thinking)
Just spit ballin', glad the feel of this thread is starting to feel a little more like the way it was before October. I guess most of us still hanging on are over it and just want anything moving forward.
The milaana has shown that, honestly anything is better than nothing.
Shit Snacks
Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAA! (TM2/TP80/BAK/FW9)
Mostly its the steel that is heat soaked and warm on all units, the mica maintains the form and is an insulator so heat isnt lost (like it was a bit to the glass) to it
I believe a drop in AC adapter is very possible here, making Zion a true desktop afterall
But I agree a triangle shaped plug in unit that was like a mini on demand LSV log would be awesome too...
hweezi
formally cwheezy
I believe a drop in AC adapter is very possible here, making Zion a true desktop afterall
But I agree a triangle shaped plug in unit that was like a mini on demand LSV log would be awesome too...
I think that would be neat, the options would be nice especially if you find yourself without a charged set. I would just like the bulk to be cut down a bit as if it was a desktop it wouldn't need the extra space for the batteries, stash, and stem. Also a little less anxiety of it sitting on a piece.
We've seen concepts of the RBT desktop, so we already know it's been discussed. I can't wait. I just hope they really reconsider what they had. We do not need another whip desktop. Whips are terrible.
Definitely would have hopped on this in between waiting for Zion, I don't see why I'd want two convection portables. I'm not a stealth guy, the Milaana just seems pointless for me and what sold me on the Zion was having everything in one while the MI looks finicky as fuhhh, but I digress.
AJS
Calm Consistency
This is what I was imagining too. It could be TINY! Just housing the heater and a female to mate with.
hweezi
formally cwheezy
@AJS This was posted back to the beginning of last year.
To me that looks basically like the same style as the EQ/VTower which both use whips, and like I said, whips are terrible.
Yessss though! It could be very small if you keep most of the electronics in it's own separate housing. I'm thinking it would just rest on a hydrafoot stand (That could be also incased in a gorgeous species of wood). so the cord could come from the bottom of the body.
I'm not sure how big the Toasty Top is but it's basically the perfect example of what I'd like to see, just put some RBT tech in there and slap a button on it!
Too bad I'm not an engineer.
To me that looks basically like the same style as the EQ/VTower which both use whips, and like I said, whips are terrible.
Yessss though! It could be very small if you keep most of the electronics in it's own separate housing. I'm thinking it would just rest on a hydrafoot stand (That could be also incased in a gorgeous species of wood). so the cord could come from the bottom of the body.
I'm not sure how big the Toasty Top is but it's basically the perfect example of what I'd like to see, just put some RBT tech in there and slap a button on it!
Too bad I'm not an engineer.
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Madcap79
Jack of all trades, master of none.
Interesting. My plates still looked like glass from the little I could see. No, I did not open mine.
KeroZen
Chronic vapaholic
Bah it's just that you won't get the info from me or any other member of the Z-team because we are under NDA. Plus I have no idea if the patent has been granted or is still pending. I'm no US patents expert but from what I know, any prior public disclosal can practically render the patent void and make the entire invention public domain. I'm in no position to take that risk and I have strictly no intention to open one of my Zions for science (but I do indeed have some insights)
Also I'm well aware of how the Chinese companies operate and how they can clone any product in less than 6 months (even 3 months in some domains), patent or not. That would only hurt RBT sales, even if some could argue it would be better for the greater good in the end...
When we are sure Ryan has his ass and revenue source covered, then fine I have no issue discussing the benefits of his technology and how it's built. For those who know me, it's clear that I love to see exactly what is inside our vapes. I dismantled and rebuilt my two FM8 prototypes and shared the results, I opened and tried to mod many of my other vapes, I've also been experimenting with various DIY vape projects lately, so that's really not the problem here, trust me.
Also I'm well aware of how the Chinese companies operate and how they can clone any product in less than 6 months (even 3 months in some domains), patent or not. That would only hurt RBT sales, even if some could argue it would be better for the greater good in the end...
When we are sure Ryan has his ass and revenue source covered, then fine I have no issue discussing the benefits of his technology and how it's built. For those who know me, it's clear that I love to see exactly what is inside our vapes. I dismantled and rebuilt my two FM8 prototypes and shared the results, I opened and tried to mod many of my other vapes, I've also been experimenting with various DIY vape projects lately, so that's really not the problem here, trust me.
I think I remember Rbt saying the patent was still in "litigation", which in my mind means it's not solid, at all..
Then he started selling them to anyone who wants one. So good luck with him keeping the heater patent a secret now.
Still waiting on mine.. The Mi thread however, with all the activity, is starting to bum me the fuck out as I ordered my Zion back in Aug of 2015.
Edit: To be clear, I am happy for the new Mi owners and to RBT for making it a reality but I am jealous to still be waiting for mine. I am trying to be patient..
Then he started selling them to anyone who wants one. So good luck with him keeping the heater patent a secret now.
Still waiting on mine.. The Mi thread however, with all the activity, is starting to bum me the fuck out as I ordered my Zion back in Aug of 2015.
Edit: To be clear, I am happy for the new Mi owners and to RBT for making it a reality but I am jealous to still be waiting for mine. I am trying to be patient..
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Shit Snacks
Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAA! (TM2/TP80/BAK/FW9)
Yeah honestly I only know what I am told, which is only a small part (and I've seen the heating element itself), there may still be some glass involved in the production heaters, despite being a simple idea the execution actually grew rather complex during the Oct-Dec period when he was fine tuning the tech.
I think I remember Rbt saying the patent was still in "litigation", which in my mind means it's not solid, at all..
Then he started selling them to anyone who wants one. So good luck with him keeping the heater patent a secret now.
Still waiting on mine.. The Mi thread however, with all the activity, is starting to bum me the fuck out as I ordered my Zion back in Aug of 2015.
Edit: To be clear, I am happy for the new Mi owners and to RBT for making it a reality but I am jealous to still be waiting for mine. I am trying to be patient..
I agree though, risky to have them in the wild, but patent filing is rather expensive. Either way replicating this tech would take a while and it should be fully protected by the time someone tries (and likely fails imo, with the limited insight that can be gathered here)
Yeah sucks to wait, why I strongly recommend any Zion waiters jump in on the Milaana today while they still can. It can tide you over until Zion comes, and would be a very nice back up if nothing else, without the portability needs and such it is still a great vape all on its own, would be good to have if Zion ever needs to be repaired etc...