Divine Tribe atty's

[GameEnders]

Hello everyone,

I was thinking about getting the DT 2.7 for on the go concentrates. However I currently have a Joyetech Evic VT for ecig use and I was curious if this would work with the DT. It does have temp control for NIC 200 (Nickel I believe, not Nichrome) and titanium. I don't see why it wouldn't work the same as the other temp control mods but wanted to verify.

Anyone ever try using it with this battery and have any input on if it works as well as the previously mentioned batteries? Any info would be appreciated.

Here is a link to the battery I am asking about.

http://www.joyetech.com/category/evic-vt/

EDIT: I just saw page 17 after a google search, and it shows a video that says the Evic VT is not recommended because it jumps back to wattage mode. Unless you have had more success with it since then sounds like my question is answered. Bummer :/

 

[Vape Donkey 650]

Hi gameenders, I had 3 evic Vts, I just sold my last one to a friend, I thought it was a fine TC mod, especially considering its a 1st generation type TC box.

The slipping out of tc thing is annoying and does happen, but very rarely to me. I think theres 2 things you can do to avoid that bug: make sure the atty is tightly screwed, and that the threads are clean.

If it continues to slip into vw when you fire, just unscrew the atty, make sure its in tc-ni, then 5 clicks on 5 clicks off, reattach atty and fire. Should stay in temp control for a while now.

The tc-ni curve on evic works fine with the donut between 310-340F. Put the watts in tc mode to the minimum 30.

If you are gonna be switching alot between your tank and donut, and dont want to be bothered by changing settings and wiping leaked glycerin alot, maybe consider a second mod to use just with the donut, like the evic vtc mini. If not, im sure your big old evic can still fire the donut jusr fine.

 

[elmoe420]

Anyone ever try using it with this battery and have any input on if it works as well as the previously mentioned batteries? Any info would be appreciated.

Here is a link to the battery I am asking about.

http://www.joyetech.com/category/evic-vt/

EDIT: I just saw page 17 after a google search, and it shows a video that says the Evic VT is not recommended because it jumps back to wattage mode. Unless you have had more success with it since then sounds like my question is answered. Bummer :/

I have an eVic VT and would not recommend it for running the DT donut. I was unable to adjust the max wattage it would use during temp control and experienced initial spikes of power before TC kicked it. It is important to have a TC device where you can adjust target temp and max wattage independently. Unlike other eVic TC devices (VTC Mini, Cuboid, Cuboid Mini) which feature this it also does not have upgradeable firmware either.

My suggestion would be to pick up an eVic VTC Mini (they can be found for ~40$) to be paired with the DT donut.

 

[WakeAndVape]

I guess I should have waited for the answer before I purchased...but will it play nice with the the Sigelei 75w TC?

 

[Vape Donkey 650]

I have an eVic VT and would not recommend it for running the DT donut. I was unable to adjust the max wattage it would use during temp control and experienced initial spikes of power before TC kicked it. It is important to have a TC device where you can adjust target temp and max wattage independently. Unlike other eVic TC devices (VTC Mini, Cuboid, Cuboid Mini) which feature this it also does not have upgradeable firmware either

Well, you can set the original evics watts from 30-60. Not as good as 1-60 but it is some meaningful control, and vaping at tc-ni @ 30w was fine for me. Unlike the consensus here, I do not like 12w tc vaping. Its vapes too thin, takes too long to reach temp, I feel like wax is melting through the base while I wait. 25w on my evic gives me near instant thick smooth tasty consistent vape.

Cuboid mini? Wow when did that come out? Looks pretty cool, might have to get one now

Anyways, getting a newer mod would be good for gameender, but I dont see any major issue using the evic vt.

 

[OF]

I guess I should have waited for the answer before I purchased...but will it play nice with the the Sigelei 75w TC?

I don't know that mod (and it seems nobody else does?) but I would bet it won't cut it in TC mode. It seems way more don't than do? Those few that do have been widely discussed here (VTC Mini and Cuboid, and iStick TC100W and Pico being good calls IMO).

That is 'closed loop' (a system where you look at the results, like how fast your car is actually going in Cruse Control, and adjust based on those results) system, great if you can get it.

But you can (probably) run 'open loop' (at a fixed level, not sampling the results), just set it in VW mode to 11 or 12 Watts and fire up. Stay sharp, though, if there's not enough oil/wax in it the temperature will rise too high. E-cig based 'vape pens' work this way (with the possible exception of the Dabbler), run open loop, and do quite well at it. But without TC in your corner you'll have to play a more active part to get optimum results.

As has been said, the best/only source for the DT atty: www.ineedhemp.com

Give it a go, I'm betting that you'll be so impressed with the DT unit you'll be looking into mods to run 'em even better in no time. Trust me, yer gonna want more........

OF

Edit:

Unlike the consensus here, I do not like 12w tc vaping. Its vapes too thin, takes too long to reach temp, I feel like wax is melting through the base while I wait. 25w on my evic gives me near instant thick smooth tasty consistent vape.

Cuboid mini? Wow when did that come out? Looks pretty cool, might have to get one now

I've no doubt the results are there, must be more like 'doing dabs' on a hot nail?

I think the new guys should also know this is WAY out of the specified range (12 Watts or less), is strongly discouraged by the maker ('please don't run over 12 Watts') and I believe voids the warranty? Your device, your call, but I recommend some research into this.....make it an informed decision?

I'm not sure when the Cuboid came out, I'm new to most of this. I came across it looking for other low power, compact mods that had useful TC modes a month or so back when I got mine and started talking about it. With a few small changes it's basically a (slightly larger) dual battery Mini. A little taller (8 mm on the pair I just measured) but basically as thick and wide but has a trap door in the bottom so cases fit 'over the top' and have a big hole for the atty. For those of us who like to read detailed information the larger display that's not hiding under your thumb is a big plus I think. It's a lot heavier in 'heft', something I don't like. Charging in the unit is slower since you have to charge two batteries (really cells, only one real battery in the Cuboid.....) but can only use the 1 Amp available through the USB. It takes twice as long as the Mini, but you only have to do it half as often? Then again, the maker recommends externally charging IIRC for the is reason?

FWIW if you want to 'go that way' (bigger, heavier mod with two batteries) the iStick TC 100W deserves consideration over the Cuboid. IMO it 'rides easier' in the hand being thinner and not having sharp edges. The display is lamer, basically the Pico display on it's side like there, but it's workable. The 'squeeze to fire' (no fire button, the left side panel pivots on magnets). The cells in the battery are in parallel, meaning you can run it with only one at the levels we need. I plan to cobble up a stash container to put on one side so it'll be self contained. If it came down to a 'using vape' choice between the two, the iStick wins over here.

OTOH, for a recommendation of a mod to purposely buy for DT attys right now it's the Pico. Well worth considering in any event IMO.

OF

 

[Vape Donkey 650]

I wanted to post a vid of my front-line service mod serving a nice dab on my prized rig (I feel like it should have a name)

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3YgEZ31nTeRQVJsNGcwQW1ER2s

I would put it on youtube but I don't want to be forced into opening another G+ account I don't need Maybe I should just do that again? At least you can watch the video in your browser, this way appears to just let you download it and watch it. Any suggestions for a video upload site, one that won't reduce the quality I'd hope?

Anyways, its my stainless steel cuboid @ TCR 245, 25W, 380F. Put a small micro bead of some "black sheep" shatter, took a couple hits but those videos didnt turn out that great. Third hit still had alot left as this video can show, and the video is more watchable.

This brings up a topic I'd love to see and hear how you guys are doing it: bubblers and rigs with the DT CDA. Anyone else wanna share? I'm especially interested in seeing other people's handheld, 1-piece bubbler attachments that hook up directly (or adapt easily) to the v2.5 base. I remember several pages back, maybe steven, elmoe, fernand or some of the guys, were showing some cool bubblers that I wanted to find out more info about, but I wasn't a registered user back then.

I've no doubt the results are there, must be more like 'doing dabs' on a hot nail?

Oh yea... that's how I like it. IMO, 25w TC joyetech dabbing is much smoother and more reliable than dabbing a hot nail or e-nail. The vape quality is actually quite similar to 12W TC dabs. It's been a real long time since I tried at 12w, not since evic firmware was v1.03 (way back) so I went and tried it again.

I dabbed for science, for you guys Clean donut, fresh reload, 12w vapor was very smooth and nice, but it seems like it took 4 seconds, or 4 display cycles / updates to reach temp and produce vape, leaving me 6 seconds to get a hit. I could cycle the button for more but that's not my style.

Vaped the bowl clean, several hits, reload, went back to 25w I'm used to. It reaches temp in 2 screen cycles and makes vape in under 2 seconds, leaving me with 8+ seconds to milk the donut for vape. There's alot more vape to get, and it's quality isn't noticeably worse than 12w. Same pretty much for evic vtc or cuboid.

I think the new guys should also know this is WAY out of the specified range (12 Watts or less), is strongly discouraged by the maker ('please don't run over 12 Watts') and I believe voids the warranty? Your device, your call, but I recommend some research into this.....make it an informed decision?

True, but I think Matt recommends that with an abundance of caution and an assumption of ham-handed and insensitive usage habits. I would consider the DT CDA kind of an "advanced user" product that works much better with caution, fine tuning, and specific procedures and maintenance, rather than a type of "top that shit off and let it rip MAX POWER!!!" attitude. (i have friends like that )

IME, DT CDA can take alot of abuse at fixed, VW devices up to 12-14w steadily and repeatedly, but I wouldn 't recommend it (burnt hash sucks yuck) If your device is dirty, not reading resistances clearly, or is of a disreputable brand, you can bust donuts at wattage ranges that normally should not. I had a crappy wotofo mod a while back that busted a donut @ TC-Ni only 200F because it thought my base was 1.1 ohm... poof

FWIW, for a short time I ran my evic VT and VTCs at 60 and 75W, repsectively. And it never harmed a donut one little bit. Vapor quality wasn't as good as lower watts, but it wasn't bad. The key here is that joyetech mods, apparently, measure coil resistance very quickly and accurately, and dynamically during your puff. So while it may have blasted my coil with 75w, it measured its effect and compensated for that so quickly... then 25w then 14w, 12, 10, all within 1500ms maybe. The donut can take very brief pulses of high watts...if your mod can measure it and dispense it well enough.

This makes me want to bring up the good ol' eleaf istick 40W TC. If Mat was super-firm that no one give his attys more than 12w of juice, why would he still sell these mods, says that he likes them, and recommend using TC-Ni? It's hammering your coil with 40W every time you press fire. Sure, it overcompensates and dials back to around 9-12W once "protection" clears, but I feel that many eleaf mods are measuring your atomizer coil and adjusting power output at a much slower, if not, less accurate rate than the joyetech mods I have used. I've never heard of anyone busting a donut on the istick 40w on TC-ni, at reasonable temperatures with a properly measured base resistance. And that coil will be seeing alot of 40W time. That's why I didn't like the istick 40W TC, it makes a too-hot almost burny vape at first click, only to fluctuate in a cycle of over/under-compensating wattage until 10 seconds passes. I felt like using this mod fouled my donuts with dark crust more quickly than the evic because of this. In using the istick with a glass globe and rig, the uneven, pulsing pattern of vape production was evident as well, something you can't easily observe with the normal mouthpiece against your lips.

Fortunately for me, I was able to sell my 3 isticks to friends who still use them, and eventually moved on to the vape rainbow that is the 6 different evic VTC colors. The istick 40w was groundbreaking for it's time and punched above it's weight, but being able to set max watts in TC mode is a huge plus, obviously, and desirable in any mod one buys.

So anyways, I'm not trying to say my way of milking the donut is the right way, or better. It's just a different setup one can use to get fatter rips with no noticeable drop in vapor quality, and is very safe for your donut. Been doin' this for many months on a dozen plus bases now haven't lost 1

OF, all of you guys, I challenge you to try 25w rips. You strike me as a man of science. Do it for science!

I bet you'll like it.

I'm not sure when the Cuboid came out, I'm new to most of this. I came across it looking for other low power, compact mods that had useful TC modes a month or so back when I got mine and started talking about it. With a few small changes it's basically a (slightly larger) dual battery Mini.

Hey cool, somehow I missed this earlier. I got a gold one on the way now, I like how it will have the bigger screen in a slightly smaller size, not very pricey, and it has the (IMO) superior joyetech software and hardware that I'm familiar with. Plus I'm a sucker for cool shiney colors

I've been aware of the istick 100w but don't like the design and button so much...although that's cool how you turned the spare battery space into a stash spot. nice.

The pico is my favorite eleaf mod at the moment. I still like my evic's a bit more but I think my picos will hold a spot in my rotation for a while

// end_too-long-post

Mod note: posts merged

 

[OF]

The donut can take very brief pulses of high watts...if your mod can measure it and dispense it well enough.

This makes me want to bring up the good ol' eleaf istick 40W TC. If Mat was super-firm that no one give his attys more than 12w of juice, why would he still sell these mods, says that he likes them, and recommend using TC-Ni?

OF, all of you guys, I challenge you to try 25w rips. You strike me as a man of science. Do it for science!

I bet you'll like it.

Very good you've added more restrictions ('very brief time') to your recommendation (I think that belonged in the original post by way of caution). I'm still not comfortable with recommending something so far out of line from the official instructions. But as long as a recommendation is safe to the user and contains full details of the risk we'll have to leave it to Members being adult and exercising due caution as they see it......but it should be as fully informed a decision as possible?

I believe Matt intends you run them in VW mode at under 12 Watts. Not TC mode. With a possible extra fraction (or even a full Watt?) as the doughnut ages? Can you please show me where he recommends them in TC mode? TIA It's been fairly widely discussed that 'hammering them' at 40 Watts, even briefly, is to be avoided I believe.

Sorry, I won't be 'taking your challenge', for a number of reasons. First off, I'm inclined to use equipment as designed/recommended by the makers and recommend that to others. Yes, there are exceptions in other areas of life (say how much a guy drinks?), this is not one of those IMO. As I said, I've no doubt it works (or you wouldn't do it?), I just think such a recommendation requires 'full disclosure'.

You're wrong, however, I'm confident I would not like it......I don't do dabs you see? If I want more production than DT offers when run inside it's specifications I'll load up one of my remaining TV Cera EO cores. They are designed for such heavy duty. Serious power, designed to be so from thew start. Can hold a whole gram and dispense it in about two dozen hits in a few minutes. I've seen it done, it's extreme for sure, right up with dabbing I'm told? For sure I was never comfortable with more than a small fraction of that so I seriously doubt I'd enjoy running the DT at twice the power it's intended.

Also the 40w TC eleaf does use 40w in TC mode, it does not let you control that, however if you look closely when it is set to 320°f you can see after the temp protection screen it is always pulsing the wattage at 4-10watts and no more.. if it ever goes into wattage mode by accident I have mine set to 12w just in case. I session with a lot of people and they are always pressing the wrong buttons even after i tell them ,, so having that set low in wattage mode is ideal. I have been looking for other batteries and testing them. I am open to suggestions, the reason i like this eleaf 40w TC is it's small, very light, the chip and battery all together are very reliable, its inexpensive and makes the donut perform. another thing is they can be charged over 2000 times in their lives, i charge my battery 1 to 2 x a week.

My 'take' is he's not convinced this mod is ideal and is looking for a more appropriate one? They are an adequate driver for his product, under some conditions but not all? And not ideal in that their TC mode does not meet all requirements? Some of the other Eleaf and eVic models do, I recommend them instead.

Regards to all.

OF

 

[Darb]

Well, you can set the original evics watts from 30-60. Not as good as 1-60 but it is some meaningful control, and vaping at tc-ni @ 30w was fine for me. Unlike the consensus here, I do not like 12w tc vaping. Its vapes too thin, takes too long to reach temp, I feel like wax is melting through the base while I wait. 25w on my evic gives me near instant thick smooth tasty consistent vape.

Cuboid mini? Wow when did that come out? Looks pretty cool, might have to get one now

Anyways, getting a newer mod would be good for gameender, but I dont see any major issue using the evic vt.

I agree 12w and under are absolutely useless for me too. I'm a fan of higher wattages. Thought it was complete junk when using it under 12w and had even shelved it for a while. Decided to break it out again for some reason and ran it at 20 plus watts....wow, now I'm impressed with the donut.

Edit: I don't recommend doing this. I have extra atomizers and it's no big deal to me if I burn them out.

 

[divinetribe]

Hello, I just want to say the discussion on here is very informative to myself. I am not dead set on the E leaf 40 W TC. I am definitely open to a more precise wattage when having it set in temp control. When using the IPV D2 I have it set to 15j and 300°F. I have not studied the results or taken note of different settings. I kind of just go off of taste and vapor production.
I look at it like this, everyone has different types of concentrates and everyone likes different types of hits. Some want it really smooth some want it hot and harsh and with the way the ohms fluctuate I try to just give a general temperature and wattage that will work for most people. I'm also trying to cover my ass and not have to replace donuts for people constantly. Because I will replace them if you keep them within a range that's reasonably giving you good vapor. Most emails I get from people who are cracking donuts are using them above 20 W. I've cracked them at 13 W.

To people who are reading this, my best advice is to find the setting that works best for you and you feel will not crack the donut.
Also if you know of a battery that is lighter and as cheap as the 40 W TC but will let you regulate wattage while you're in temperature mode. Please share.
Many people are sticklers about price. And to offer a vaporizer pen with a six-month guarantee for around $50 I think entices most newcomers. I am open to switching batteries but for now I have sold over 1000 of these batteries and they are holding up for all my customers. In the past I have had to do returns on faulty batteries I'm just happy to get one that is reliable.

 

[OF]

Also if you know of a battery that is lighter and as cheap as the 40 W TC but will let you regulate wattage while you're in temperature mode. Please share.
Many people are sticklers about price. And to offer a vaporizer pen with a six-month guarantee for around $50 I think entices most newcomers. I am open to switching batteries but for now I have sold over 1000 of these batteries and they are holding up for all my customers. In the past I have had to do returns on faulty batteries I'm just happy to get one that is reliable.

In broad terms I think the Pico fits that bill? It's a bit heavier (4.7 against 3.7 ounces in the two I just weighed), but the more 'hand friendly' shape I think negates most of that? Otherwise, it seems as ideally suited to our use as any, is tiny, offers replaceable battery and while costs vary the two Picos I bought were cheaper than the two TC 40Ws. The one I just got today was $29, $35 shipped from Fl (got here in 3 days, ordered Wednesday, Priority Mail.
http://www.myvaporstore.com/Eleaf-iSmoka-iStick-Pico-75W-Body-Only-p/elis-is7575.htm

The reliability point is an important one. Potentially fatal. While this is an experienced maker, it's a new model. It could well prove to be problematic, a serious risk to businesses like yours. Your concern, IMO is well placed. Sound thinking in the real world. The risk for us as individuals is small I think but getting a few hundred of them in customers hands to have it go south and fill your days with dealing with problems, shipping out free replacements and stuff can sure change black ink to red. You can't do that fast enough to keep from going broke sometimes.

And in real small businesses it can be just like the White Rabbit in Alice in Wonderland said, "Sometimes it takes all the running we can do to stay in the same place".

IMO that's refreshing to 'hear'. Shows experience, understanding and will to remain in business......being as that's providing cool stuff to us, I say 'bully on that'.

Thanks.

OF

 

[Steven]

The Wismec Presa tc should be considered by anyone looking for a good mod. It comes in a 75w and 100w model. The 100w model uses a single 26650 or a 18650 battery with included sleeve. The 75w model uses a single 18650 battery. It uses the same chip as the evic mini. Also unlike other box mods, this one isn't really a box so it fits in the hand nicely. The battery compartment is round (doesn't show in pic). The 75w model is currently going for $35 shipped I think

The presa is a tried and true mod that I fully recommend. But this one just caught my eye. It's smaller than the presa and evic mini. It's the balrog 75w tc. Again, I don't knowtoo much about this one yet. Not sure if it uses a reliable chip and so forth

 

[Vape Donkey 650]

Actually stevie, the wismecs are co -branded with eleaf. Dont know if that means eleaf produces them, shares supply chains or software, or marketing. No apparent link to joyetech.

https://www.eleafus.com/co-branding/wismec.html

They're also partnered with beyond vape as well. The presas look cool and I believe you that they perform well, but I prefer traditional shapes and buttons. The presas are just a bit odd for my tastes.

Let us know if you try the new balrog. Ha.. cool name, street fighter. were always looking for new tc mods that fire our donuts real well, esp. small ones. From the looks of the pic it could be sub -pico sized.

I also wanna post a review of the artery nugget mod for u guys, thats another tiny mod that I like.

 

[Steven]

From what I know wismec is a California company. And I think I read somewhere that Joyetech is the mother company for wismec and eleaf. It's why they all share Joyetech chips.

It's funny the power button is what turned you off about the mod because it was the sole reason why I got it. It is by far the best button press of all my mods. Plus pressing the fire button in hand is far superior to the regular button Imo. Probably not such a big concern for you because I think you don't recycle the power button. I take very long hits and recycle the
Power button 4-5 times and have broken several mods from overworked power buttons. I just found out I may be doing some remodeling so the balrog may have to be put on hold unfortunately

 

[OF]

From what I know wismec is a California company. And I think I read somewhere that Joyetech is the mother company for wismec and eleaf. It's why they all share Joyetech chips.

This seems to be at least partially true. There are two Joytechs, one Chinese, one Californian. Wisemec is Chinese as well as I read it (addresses in the Complaint filing). No mention of Eleaf:

https://search.rpxcorp.com/litigation_documents/11891651

Fun stuff, if that sort of stuff interests you? They're asking for a JURY trial......which could be fun in and of itself. A single 'straight' juror who knew/found out this could be drug paraphernalia could throw a proverbial wrench in the works?

OF

 

[erka]

In broad terms I think the Pico fits that bill? It's a bit heavier (4.7 against 3.7 ounces in the two I just weighed), but the more 'hand friendly' shape I think negates most of that? Otherwise, it seems as ideally suited to our use as any, is tiny, offers replaceable battery and while costs vary the two Picos I bought were cheaper than the two TC 40Ws. The one I just got today was $29, $35 shipped from Fl (got here in 3 days, ordered Wednesday, Priority Mail.
http://www.myvaporstore.com/Eleaf-iSmoka-iStick-Pico-75W-Body-Only-p/elis-is7575.htm

The reliability point is an important one. Potentially fatal. While this is an experienced maker, it's a new model. It could well prove to be problematic, a serious risk to businesses like yours. Your concern, IMO is well placed. Sound thinking in the real world. The risk for us as individuals is small I think but getting a few hundred of them in customers hands to have it go south and fill your days with dealing with problems, shipping out free replacements and stuff can sure change black ink to red. You can't do that fast enough to keep from going broke sometimes.

And in real small businesses it can be just like the White Rabbit in Alice in Wonderland said, "Sometimes it takes all the running we can do to stay in the same place".

IMO that's refreshing to 'hear'. Shows experience, understanding and will to remain in business......being as that's providing cool stuff to us, I say 'bully on that'.

Thanks.

OF

Hi have You give a try to the dry herb atty with the pico.Did he manage TC ?thanks for all .good vape

 

[Vape Donkey 650]

Hi have You give a try to the dry herb atty with the pico.Did he manage TC ?thanks for all .good vape

I tried that out... the little pico doesn't hold temp control on the DC atomizer. It jumps to watts mode after a few seconds of holding the button down. Considering most TC mods on the market cannot hold TC modes on this atomizer, I was not expecting the pico to, but I wish I knew why

 

[OF]

I tried that out... the little pico doesn't hold temp control on the DC atomizer.

but I wish I knew why

It will if you don't push too hard, right? That is dial it down to a few Watts and it's fine? It's been a while since I poked at this, I still have to dig out my '510 jig' so I can run a DC up on a bench supply and check out what's going on.

My current theory (great pun, eighwhat?) is Thermodynamics again. At higher powers (like useful......) heat can build up faster in the windings (that is isn't heat isn't conducted away fast enough) so the core can get hot enough to drive the hot resistance out of range? There's a fun trade off is size/volume as bodies get bigger. This is why skinny guys can eat like proverbial horses and not pack it on while those of us with more comfortable waistlines cannot. Small mammals like mice burn more calories per pound of weight keeping warm that cats say. They have more surface area for the volume so they radiate and convect heat away faster. Same with planets, stars and stuff too. The default for going out of range (something a bit over an Ohm) in TC mode is to drop back to VW which has a 3 Ohm limit so is still in range. I think that's what we see.

Or not.

I figure feeding it a constant current and watching the voltage across the DC on Mister Oscilloscope should tell the tale, after I find the jig and round up the rest of the gear needed. Someday.

OF

 

[OF]

Gentle Friends,

I did some interesting reading on this 'who is Joytech and why is Evolve suing them?' thing. I think I know a little more well enough to pass on.

In September of 2014 Evolve got a 'kitchen sink' patent they claim gives them rights to variable power and TC use in vapes (or rather "Personal Vaporizer That Simulates Smoking With Power Control"). Remember that while you can patent about anything, but the 'proof' is can you defend it. And you have to look at this in the light of 'not immediately obvious' test. IMO since variable power and TC were widely used long before 18 months ago, that'll be tough sale. A single expert witness and example of 'prior art' and Evolve will loose I think?

A 'battle of expert witnesses' might be fun to watch unfold in court. I've seen this happen, it can take some really funny turns.

This is more complex because for a while Evolve had Joytech make parts for them. Which of course they reverse engineered and sold to others as alternatives and used themselves in various models under their name (both Chinese and Domestic), Eleaf, Wisemec (who actually made the 'DNA 200' and other circuit boards for Evolve), iStick, ISmok (all Chinese). This means Cuboid, Pico, Mini, RX 200 and basically all the mods we are interested in. Evolve will sell you some of those models (their version) but at about four times the price (being 'made in USA despite boards made in China?).

Now, with the exception of Joytech USA (a 'marketing office') everything is Chinese and therefore immune to US patents. So Evolve is attacking the Joytech USA 'weak spot'. They may prevail, of course, the down side seems to be driving prices up here. No way will it change Joytech's commanding lead worldwide nor will it be able to stop us from buying 'offshore'. Those who will suffer most it seems are the 'mom and pop smoke shops' that can no longer sell them. I read a couple of e-cig groups on this topic, it seems the e-cig makers have this history, at least one has really screwed the little guy in recent history (and is no more himself?).

But this answers the question, these mods all come from Joytech in some way, they share common engineering and parts (Evolve would say stolen from them....) which explains the similar operation.

The other message is this is happening right now. New models are coming out in volume, the suit is six weeks or so old and in short time we could see a preliminary restraining order that would immediately 'dry up' domestic sources like the MVS link for the Pico I posted a day or two ago. Eventually it could lead to bankruptcy for Joytech USA (no problem for the parent or other 'sister companies' of course). This means we're going to be forced to FT, DHGate and so on. Shop owners will suffer of course, we might not pay more in the end but we'll have to wait a couple weeks for the goods and returns of problem units will probably become disused options for most? And perhaps counterfeit Cuboids and RX 200s? Right now Joytech may be making theirs so cheaply that there's no market? Joytech is selling regulator boards ('their own design') to other mod makers as well, and has been for a while. Pretty complex.

So now you know as much as me......which ain't all that much really. But we know these TC mods are all family and know there's a row starting up elsewhere that could spill over into our quiet enjoyment of the DT doughnuts. I doubt it'll stop the evolution of yet more useful mods to come.

Regards to all on a beautiful Sunday. Time to go out and be sure the garden is all in order.......

OF

 

[fernand]

Wow @Vape Donkey 650 your dab lab is right on! OF COURSE one should not mix strains. And since Matt is helping out with the FC deal$, it's more doable.

I was surprised to find that in their units W9-Tech uses the (presumably) inferior generic ceramic donuts with the windings.

... rather than Matt's Divine Tribe evenly deposited resistance



As to water tool connectors, this is cheap, simple and works. The heavy-based 10 mm bubbler is stable. It's easy to hold the two pieces in separate hands, like driving a tank, but they can be skwumshed together anytime, if a hand is needed to grab onto the desk, for instance. You could even skwumsh 'em together permanent-like with Duck Tape. Rubber bands? Maybe Velcro?

As to the lawsuit, we can always go back to the original 18th century Chinese vaporizer:

A little oil lamp was used to heat the tip of the "bowl" and vaporize the resinous substance
through the pin-hole.

 

[divinetribe]

Thanks for bringing these details about the donuts to my attention ..
I just emailed a customer about the v3 and here is what it said:

" Couple follow up questions about your atomizers. Are they free from glue and solder? What is the embedded wire within the ceramic donut made from? Titanium? Food-safe material? I'm trying to decide whether to try your atomizers or go with some from w9tech. Thanks.

Hello if you're worried about glue I would go with W9. The only problem is when you use metal housing it seems to put off a flavor in my opinion. My manufacture and I are battling to get rid of the glue. It is non-toxic and does not produce any noticeable flavor in my opinion but it is something that still bothers me. The solder is silver. I am working very hard to get the completely rebuildable version 3 done.
Matt


Thanks for the quick and honest answer. I may be mistaken but doesn't silver solder contain fluorides in the Flux material? Any plans to get rid of solder and moving to gold point connections?

I have never considered the gold. My goal is to have the whole v3 rebuildable I have coming off gas tested at multiple temps. I am waiting now for the last mold to get done. Once I have the finished product I will be sending it to one of the best labs for testing gasses and providing a accurate msds report.
Thanks

What's time frame estimate for v3? 6 months? Sounds like you take consumer health/quality of components seriously. Thanks for caring.

i am hoping 30 days but it is out of my hands when it comes to mold times.. i am waiting for my base and new ceramic cup that will house the larger donut."

 

[fernand]

I can't help but be amazed at some of the things modern people fixate on. Fluoride in the flux? Flux is heated to oblivion. Seems any leftover would be rinsed/scraped off. Silver, gold, nickel, titanium, chromium all metals have some effects, interactions with biological systems. It's a question of dose. A little strychnine is allegedly good for you. If you believe the homeopaths and naturopaths, even the most infinitesimally minute amounts of anything can have profound effects. We aren't pristine creatures encountering an occasional toxin. That's derived from the protestant myth of clean white linen-suited christians walking at arm's length among the unwashed savages. Quick! Rinse it off! We ARE biochemical complexes, part of a stream of molecules. Our skins aren't walls, they're like lungs and gut, protein and lipid factories humming and cooking the stuff we swim in. We eat, breathe and excrete chemicals. George Carlin used to say that as a kid splashing in the East River he was "tempered in shit".

 

[elmoe420]

I can't help but be amazed at some of the things modern people fixate on. Fluoride in the flux? Flux is heated to oblivion. Seems any leftover would be rinsed/scraped off. Silver, gold, nickel, titanium, chromium all metals have some effects, interactions with biological systems. It's a question of dose. A little strychnine is allegedly good for you. If you believe the homeopaths and naturopaths, even the most infinitesimally minute amounts of anything can have profound effects. We aren't pristine creatures encountering an occasional toxin. That's derived from the protestant myth of clean white linen-suited christians walking at arm's length among the unwashed savages. Quick! Rinse it off! We ARE biochemical complexes, part of a stream of molecules. Our skins aren't walls, they're like lungs and gut, protein and lipid factories humming and cooking the stuff we swim in. We eat, breathe and excrete chemicals. George Carlin used to say that as a kid splashing in the East River he was "tempered in shit".

At the end of the day the only real truth is that every individual will have to arrive at this decision on their own. I know people who have smoked herb out of pop cans and didn't think twice about it. I also observed someone on reddit the other day admonishing others for touching their concentrates with their bare fingers for fear of transmitting bacteria in the vapor. Each person will form their own opinion on what is safety and what is hypochondria. I don't foresee us ever arriving at much universal truth in this area.

The best thing vendors and manufacturers can do in my opinion is be as transparent as possible. Release full material lists and materials test results from reputable US sources. Help the customer to make an informed decision. Both Divine Tribe and W9 are pushing in this direction which is great. New Vape says they will be committed to this as well with their new ErrlCan. Let's hope everyone follows through and this attitude and practice becomes the standard.

 

[OF]

I can't help but be amazed at some of the things modern people fixate on. Fluoride in the flux? Flux is heated to oblivion. Seems any leftover would be rinsed/scraped off.

Most folks fears are genuine, the really do fear, but often as you suggest are based on incomplete understanding......then again, caution is good?

Not all fluxes have Fluorides (or Chlorides). Nor are they even used in many cases (I suspect here since there is not contamination involved). Flux cleans at the atomic level when hot. Acids do this too. So does Borax (what I used to use for flux making hippie silver jewelery back when). Or Beeswax (used to flux lead traditionally.

Here the element is Nickle/Chrome, neither of which oxidizes. Pick up another similar metal for the leads (Tin or Nickle plating?) and you don't even have to backfill the furnace when you braze (it's not really soldering if you use pure Silver....) them in place.

After this is done, the entire part is glazed, the element itself and the bottom of the leads (including the connection) is covered with powdered glass and 'fired' again like a dinner plate. The glass melts, and dirt, flux, contamination or whatever would float to the top surface when liquid or be forever sealed under the solid glass when it cools. To make this happen we need to raise the temperature like 2000 degrees hotter than we use them (say 2500F), zero chance any nasty stuff outgassing? Yet guys are fearful of the ceramic (it came up a bit ago in this very thread?), mostly I think because they're being extra cautious.

Which is a much better default than the other way?

I also observed someone on reddit the other day admonishing others for touching their concentrates with their bare fingers for fear of transmitting bacteria in the vapor.

Oh, my, isn't that Special? Another example of why I don't hang out on 'lesser Forums'......

"It must be true, I read it on the web". Soon we may have to drop a traditional winner to make room on 'the 3 biggest lies of all times' list.........

Thanks for the grin, I wish I hadn't shaken my head so hard.

OF

 

[Vape Donkey 650]

It will if you don't push too hard, right? That is dial it down to a few Watts and it's fine? It's been a while since I poked at this, I still have to dig out my '510 jig' so I can run a DC up on a bench supply and check out what's going on.

My current theory (great pun, eighwhat?) is Thermodynamics again. At higher powers (like useful......) heat can build up faster in the windings (that is isn't heat isn't conducted away fast enough) so the core can get hot enough to drive the hot resistance out of range? There's a fun trade off is size/volume as bodies get bigger. This is why skinny guys can eat like proverbial horses and not pack it on while those of us with more comfortable waistlines cannot. Small mammals like mice burn more calories per pound of weight keeping warm that cats say. They have more surface area for the volume so they radiate and convect heat away faster. Same with planets, stars and stuff too. The default for going out of range (something a bit over an Ohm) in TC mode is to drop back to VW which has a 3 Ohm limit so is still in range. I think that's what we see.

Or not.

I figure feeding it a constant current and watching the voltage across the DC on Mister Oscilloscope should tell the tale, after I find the jig and round up the rest of the gear needed. Someday.

OF

I only gave it 20-25w on my quick attempt at DC TC, which I think is the minimum range of watts for this atomizer. I don't think 12w would do much or reach the temps this atty needs. That's what I tried on every mod I have with this atty (and higher watts) but they never hold TC. For your explanation on the coil resistance rising too high too quickly and out of the range of TC capabilities, I can see that. But then why is the RX200 mod capable of doing TC when others can't? Isn't it's range of TC the typical 0.1-1.5 ohm span like most of the better mods? Does it have something to do with having 3 cells?

If the releaux mod wasn't so big and heavy, I probably would have one to "TC the DC" (and back up my crafty ) but the hefty cuboid is probably the biggest mod I will ever own.

Also, interesting stuff on the lawsuits, Mr. OF, I wonder how you are digging this stuff up? In light of the panama papers scandal, with shell companies, intellectual property theft, copies and counterfeit, shadow banking, these things are familiar in chinese business. Generally I'm opposed to these kind of practices, but if it results in me getting tons of dirt cheap and highly functional devices and the industry moving forward so quickly...maybe I make an exception in this case? (as long as they're not screwing over divine tribe )

Wow @Vape Donkey 650 your dab lab is right on! OF COURSE one should not mix strains. And since Matt is helping out with the FC deal$, it's more doable.

I was surprised to find that in their units W9-Tech uses the (presumably) inferior generic ceramic donuts with the windings.

... rather than Matt's Divine Tribe evenly deposited resistance



As to water tool connectors, this is cheap, simple and works. The heavy-based 10 mm bubbler is stable. It's easy to hold the two pieces in separate hands, like driving a tank, but they can be skwumshed together anytime, if a hand is needed to grab onto the desk, for instance. You could even skwumsh 'em together permanent-like with Duck Tape. Rubber bands? Maybe Velcro?

As to the lawsuit, we can always go back to the original 18th century Chinese vaporizer:

A little oil lamp was used to heat the tip of the "bowl" and vaporize the resinous substance
through the pin-hole.

Glad you like my dab lab Your rig looks like it serves up some nice chalky clouds too, and easy to handle with the flexible (silicon?) tubing. It resembles my green rig with the honeycomb diffuser right? I use that one for co2 oil. I'd still love to see everyone else's rig setups, especially if they are customized. I'm always looking for improvements to my janky connections between the 18mm female and 2.5 base. There are 8 and 10 connecting pieces on my rigs, respectively, and fewer would be better.

If you guys have some mini bubblers too, please share! I think elmoe is the guy here that has a bunch of hand-held glass attachments.

Elmoe! Calling you out! Show me your collection of nibblers please.

Thanks for bringing these details about the donuts to my attention ..
I just emailed a customer about the v3 and here is what it said:

" Couple follow up questions about your atomizers. Are they free from glue and solder? What is the embedded wire within the ceramic donut made from? Titanium? Food-safe material? I'm trying to decide whether to try your atomizers or go with some from w9tech. Thanks.

Hello if you're worried about glue I would go with W9. The only problem is when you use metal housing it seems to put off a flavor in my opinion. My manufacture and I are battling to get rid of the glue. It is non-toxic and does not produce any noticeable flavor in my opinion but it is something that still bothers me. The solder is silver. I am working very hard to get the completely rebuildable version 3 done.
Matt


Thanks for the quick and honest answer. I may be mistaken but doesn't silver solder contain fluorides in the Flux material? Any plans to get rid of solder and moving to gold point connections?

I have never considered the gold. My goal is to have the whole v3 rebuildable I have coming off gas tested at multiple temps. I am waiting now for the last mold to get done. Once I have the finished product I will be sending it to one of the best labs for testing gasses and providing a accurate msds report.
Thanks

What's time frame estimate for v3? 6 months? Sounds like you take consumer health/quality of components seriously. Thanks for caring.

i am hoping 30 days but it is out of my hands when it comes to mold times.. i am waiting for my base and new ceramic cup that will house the larger donut."

Always good to know more info on your vape gear, and Matt appears to have access to and is willing to share more info on his materials than most other vape vendors that are out there. Many others clearly don't care at all. And for me, as someone who doesn't know a whole lot about the toxicity and safety of various materials, I wouldn't be so quick to denigrate or ridicule the attempts of customers to seek such specific data, offhand at least. Also, regarding some vape gear, some users may have medical conditions or sensitivities to certain materials gassing-off that healthy people need not be concerned of? IDK?

I think very few vaporizers and atomizers provide MSDS, that I know of at least? List of those that do, anyone? Most companies producing vapes provide vague, liability-limiting language and clauses that underplays the benefits and overplays the hazards.

But, coming to mind, I think all products from storz & bickel go through a testing process that would be a rough european equivalent to a MSDS, which basically certifies that any gasses emitted from the product under normal usage are safe, right?

EDIT: Sorry to drag us to a tangent here, but I think you guys may be interested in this side project I'm working with since it involves ceramic coil vapes on TC mods vaping pure concentrate?

I'd be crazy to think I'm the first guy to pour a G of pure co2 oil into a high quality RTA, but maybe the first to do it with a ceramic head on temp control?

I posted about this in this other thread in the forum to share my results if you want to check it out