Non-skunk

[sativasam]

I find that to be a common theme with most people. We don't know real cannabis. Only your experience is legitimate, we are all just pretending to cultivate this plant when the real deal is only grown by two guys in some jamaican hut in the boonies.

If you were to go back in time to when I could only find the mexican brick weed I was getting when I started smoking, I would have defended it to the death. I would have said that there were several grades of schwag, and some of it was actually killer stuff, you just had to sift through the

And... I'll admit, I've not been around since the 60's or whatever, but I have been an every-day indulger for about 14 years, and a cultivator for a little over 6 of those years. I'm not going to say that this makes me an end-all resource for cannabis, but I certainly feel qualified to discuss all aspects of the plant, including genetic lineage...

Iv'e made my point which is clearly you don't know what Jamaican High-Grade actually is. Have you ever even officially tried it????? Your talking about Mexican brick weed, the two are not the same.

The FACT is, that in Jamaica you have normal weed, and then you have High-Grade/Ces. That is a fact. The two may look similar, but they are not the same. Not by a long shot.

I'm not a teenager defending some shwag I bought on the street. Im explaining that real Jamaican Highgrade is classic in the same way as a sticky bit of Afghani hash is. The Afghan Hash was made with shwag. It may not be 'Super Lemon Haze', it wont make you trip balls but it will get you nicely stoned and it is one of the worlds finest delicacies. Jamican High-Grade is a benchmark of quality in the same way that Afghani Hash is.

If you don't like High-Grade weed I don't care obviously..... But you can't say that this isn't High Grade....Because it is..... That is its name......This is what high grade looks like.................FACT.

 

[weenstoned]

Then they don't know the definition of the term 'High-Grade'.

Jamaican Cess, Rasta Cess whatever you want to call it. Jamaican High Grade is well known. Maybe not in the suburbs of the US. But you can not pretend to know about weed while failing to understand the significance and quality of High Grade Jamaican strains.

I would argue that you don't know the definition of High-Grade. I could give a shit about bag appeal personally, but I would say that High-Grade has to be basically perfect on every level including looks. Cannabis growing is not rocket science, Jamaicans have not unlocked any secrets that growers on the west of North America are incapable of. Outdoor is fine, but can rarely approach the level of control that indoor growers have. Is there a glut of Kush strains out there compared to quality landrace sativas? Yeah but growers still have access to the seeds so they are out there. I appreciate the strains, but I would never buy stuff that looks barely better than rosin chips let alone try to convince anyone it was high grade. Well maybe I would tell them that at some point long before it got to me it was high grade.

 

[seaofgreens]

@sativasam

I'm sorry if I have been unclear with my example, which was to point out that mechanically crushing a plant into a cube is a no-no, even if it is "the-best" shit ever.

I have sampled many land-race strains though, including a couple Jamaican varieties. I guess I figure that goes hand in hand with cultivation and having a passion for cannabis.

I am merely pointing out the physical realities of the cannabis you are describing, and that you seem to be informing me I am an idiot if I don't agree it is the best stuff on the planet?

Maybe grow out that land-race yourself, show me a well grown, well manicured example, and then we shall be able to have a reasonable discussion about the flavor/potency of the jamaican land-race varieties being the best to your palate, and why.

Let's not get all excited and hostile, yes?

 

[sativasam]

I would argue that you don't know the definition of High-Grade. I could give a shit about bag appeal personally, but I would say that High-Grade has to be basically perfect on every level including looks. Cannabis growing is not rocket science, Jamaicans have not unlocked any secrets that growers on the west of North America are incapable of. Outdoor is fine, but can rarely approach the level of control that indoor growers have. Is there a glut of Kush strains out there compared to quality landrace sativas? Yeah but growers still have access to the seeds so they are out there. I appreciate the strains, but I would never buy stuff that looks barely better than rosin chips let alone try to convince anyone it was high grade. Well maybe I would tell them that at some point long before it got to me it was high grade.

The term High Grade can be applied literally to any bud that is of a high grade. But that does not change the fact that high grade is a Jamaican term applied to a a type of weed that looks like this. Go to Jamaica, go to Amsterdam. It looks like this. often darker. It stinks like fruit.

 

[sativasam]

@sativasam

I'm sorry if I have been unclear with my example, which was to point out that mechanically crushing a plant into a cube is a no-no, even if it is "the-best" shit ever.

I have sampled many land-race strains though, including a couple Jamaican varieties. I guess I figure that goes hand in hand with cultivation and having a passion for cannabis.

I am merely pointing out the physical realities of the cannabis you are describing, and that you seem to be informing me I am an idiot if I don't agree it is the best stuff on the planet?

Maybe grow out that land-race yourself, show me a well grown, well manicured example, and then we shall be able to have a reasonable discussion about the flavor/potency of the jamaican land-race varieties being the best to your palate, and why.

Let's not get all excited and hostile, yes?

Look I get it you've grown ganja before wooo hooo. If you actually look back to my original post, you will see that the point of what I was explaining was that there were diffferent types of weed. In Jamaica there is weed that is loosely termed High Grade. It may not be perfectly trimmed dispensary bud. But it will get you nicely high and smells fruity. It gets a bad name because of seedy shwag. The poster of this thread and myself were arguing that this type of weed is not that bad seeing as it is often nearlly seedless, smells nice and doesn't make your trip out like modern dutch weed. The point was to pay dues to a classic type of weed; HighGrade Jamaican weed as an example of this. Look it up. Thats what it looks like. Ces!!! It's a classic.

You however want to tell me that it's been pressed, looks like shwag, covered in leaf and cant stand up to some finely trimed bud. Well, obviously. Because its imported Jamaican grade. Its not pretending to be a finely trimmed bud from California sold over a counter. I didn't say that it's individual genetics were the best thing weed had ever seen. I was pointing out that High Grade Jamaican weed (WHICH DOES LOOK LIKE THIS) should not be scoffed at. That it's not all bad. We know your story.. "My weed is better than yours. I flushed it like a 1000 times its got DNA Genetics". I was standing up for a classic underdog type of weed called High Grade, it's from Jamaica, you may of heard of it. I know the fancy bud you compare it to is technically better, being stronger, smellier cleaner whatever. But it's not the point.

 

[seaofgreens]

Wow...

Look, I get it, you've smoked some weed before. Wooo hooo...


If you actually go back to my original post, you will see that the point I was trying to make wasn't about this "High-Grade," Strain from Jamaica you are talking about being or not being excellent stuff... But that when you take any product, and then mechanically smash it together to maximize volume for shipping... the flavor disappears, the high suffers, etc... Same for when a plant is left with all the sugar leaves on... the flavor suffers because there is just too much chlorophyll remaining in the leaf material. These are just simple physical facts. Not strain dependent.... Don't come here and try to tell me how I don't understand what you are talking about with some blah blah esoteric genetic that you seem to think i don't know how to appreciate.

In essence, you seem to have nothing real to describe.. You smoked/vaped some buds that tasted similar and was called jamaican "High-Grade," thought it was awesome, and now that clearly gives you the right to come on here and "educate," the masses to what we are missing, despite the fact that I told you I really haven't missed sampling anything I could ever get my hands on, and never will I stop...

Where is your information tying in your buds with other buds and into an overall strain profile? How is this profile different than anything else I have ever tried? Does smashing these particular buds release a new terpene profile or something? How is anything you are describing in your posts anything more than just a subjective experience of an end-user from some essentially random import? Even if its not random, and it did indeed come from "jamaica," you have no way of identifying which genetics were being grown... otherwise it wouldn't seem unreasonable to at least ask you to discuss an actually identifiable plant that you know the growing conditions etc. of...

Only then can you have a logical discourse regarding cannabis genetics.'

Not from a bag of compressed buds. Of any kind.

Sorry.

 

[sativasam]

Wow...

Look, I get it, you've smoked some weed before. Wooo hooo...


If you actually go back to my original post, you will see that the point I was trying to make wasn't about this "High-Grade," Strain from Jamaica you are talking about being or not being excellent stuff... But that when you take any product, and then mechanically smash it together to maximize volume for shipping... the flavor disappears, the high suffers, etc... Same for when a plant is left with all the sugar leaves on... the flavor suffers because there is just too much chlorophyll remaining in the leaf material. These are just simple physical facts. Not strain dependent.... Don't come here and try to tell me how I don't understand what you are talking about with some blah blah esoteric genetic that you seem to think i don't know how to appreciate.

In essence, you seem to have nothing real to describe.. You smoked/vaped some buds that tasted similar and was called jamaican "High-Grade," thought it was awesome, and now that clearly gives you the right to come on here and "educate," the masses to what we are missing, despite the fact that I told you I really haven't missed sampling anything I could ever get my hands on, and never will I stop...

Where is your information tying in your buds with other buds and into an overall strain profile? How is this profile different than anything else I have ever tried? Does smashing these particular buds release a new terpene profile or something? How is anything you are describing in your posts anything more than just a subjective experience of an end-user from some essentially random import? Even if its not random, and it did indeed come from "jamaica," you have no way of identifying which genetics were being grown... otherwise it wouldn't seem unreasonable to at least ask you to discuss an actually identifiable plant that you know the growing conditions etc. of...

Only then can you have a logical discourse regarding cannabis genetics.'

Not from a bag of compressed buds. Of any kind.

Sorry.

@seaofgreens this thread is called 'non-skunk'. It is a thread about weed that is nice but will not blow your head off like 'Dutch' bud resembling that of 'skunk no1' will. That is the point of this thread. That is what my post is about.

You on the other hand think this thread is about if weed keeps its quality after being compressed for import. I didn't deny that it did. It's simply not the point.

I was making a general statement about a general type of weed commonly known as high grade. And you come in talking about how it's not actually of high quality. This isn't the High Times award thread. This is the 'Non-Skunk' thread. I don't need to identify its genetics as the sample posted has simply been used to illustrate the point I wanted to make, (in keeping with the theme of the thread) that weed of this nature has a milder but more pleasant buzz than its modern counterpart while also being tasty.

So frankly I have no idea what your on about. You make irrelevant statements about how compressing for import is bad and how too much shade leaf is bad compared to your finely trimmed bud. And now I have to identify its genetics to prove to you that this is real Jamaican high grade. Franky I get my grade from Rastas. They sell it as and call it high grade, it smells like high grade and it is definitely of a much higher quality than average seed and stalk weed. Which is why they call it high grade. I don't need to identify its genetics and this totally side rails the point of the thread and my post. You miss the point entirely.

 

[seaofgreens]

You miss my point as well, and I am tired of trying to discuss it with you. I believe you have made your point that you feel this stuff you find called "High-Grade," is the best non-skunk stuff out there, and I made my point saying that you can't really adequately describe what you are talking about due to the mechanical crushing and randomness of importing which makes your opinion and picture just some completely subjective sample. And doing these things DOES affect the flavor and potency, meaning that the "non-skunk," taste/experience you are having could be a direct result of the compression/distance traveled creating that loss of smell/potency... You CAN however have a non-skunk genetic that is well grown and not compressed. THAT is the point, and what I am saying should be discussed. Not what you are talking about....

I really don't see what is so confusing about this? It's not some random point....

/discussion...

 

[sativasam]

You CAN have a non-skunk genetic that is well grown and not compressed. THAT is the point, and what I am saying should be discussed. Not what you are talking about....

I really don't see what is so confusing about this? It's not some random point....

/discussion...

that's exactly what it is. A random point. I never denied the above statement. But YOU denied that the type of weed in question could still be of quality as it contained trim leaf and had been compressed.

Get some top quality Moroccan hash. It would be impossible to tell me what plants it's made from unless you acquired it at source. But that doesn't mean I can't assure you of its quality. Same thing here. And anyway Jamaican weed grows so wildly and untamed that the growers don't even know the genetics really. You say I can't "adequately describe" the weed due to it being compressed and not knowing its exact genetics. I never claimed to know its exact genetics I claimed that this type of high grade weed from Jamaica (and its partners in crime such as Thai) have history and are actually a sought after product.

 

[seaofgreens]

No... I never said that compressed weed can't include wonderful genetic potential. I said that the obvious lack of care that goes into said product is itself a lack of quality. For instance, how do you know that the stuff you have, when fresh and cured properly isn't much more smelly and potent? Maybe you don't even like it until it has been degraded to where it gets to you?

That really is the crux here. In order to have an actual discussion where we might both learn, you have to talk about the actual plant, not your bag of buds.

Is your point that you prefer bud that has been compressed/imported because it creates that non-skunk quality you are looking for?

Because my point is that you should be delving into the genetics behind the bag and wonder what it is that is causing these effects you like so much, whether it is the plant, or the handling etc... You get me?

Also, moroccan hash, and hash in general is a different experience to flower altogether. How hash processes/stores is completely different than flower. I suppose the closest analogy would be that you prefer only hash that has been poorly stored and is now flavorless/much less potent.

 

[ragnorak71]

isnt this mainly about availability and stuff in the uk? we do not get the luxury of asking for genealogy it is just whats around at the time. so much over here gets called skunk when it isnt because that tends to be one people want and are aware of


as for the argument above, i couldn't give a shit really, all seems a bit of a storm in a weed cup. it is bumping the thread though

 

[sativasam]

No... I never said that compressed weed can't include wonderful genetic potential. I said that the obvious lack of care that goes into said product is itself a lack of quality. For instance, how do you know that the stuff you have, when fresh and cured properly isn't much more smelly and potent? Maybe you don't even like it until it has been degraded to where it gets to you?

That really is the crux here. In order to have an actual discussion where we might both learn, you have to talk about the actual plant, not your bag of buds.

Is your point that you prefer bud that has been compressed/imported because it creates that non-skunk quality you are looking for?

Because my point is that you should be delving into the genetics behind the bag and wonder what it is that is causing these effects you like so much, whether it is the plant, or the handling etc... You get me?

Also, moroccan hash, and hash in general is a different experience to flower altogether. How hash processes/stores is completely different than flower. I suppose the closest analogy would be that you prefer only hash that has been poorly stored and is now flavorless/much less potent.

so your point is that I should know the genetics of my import so as to determine what about the high it is that I like.

It is obvious why I like it.

Due to the nature of the weed in question it is clearly grown outdoors and without much attendance. Most importantly it has not been bred to maximise bud and THC potential in an aggressive way. It has likely not been supper cropped. It is impossible to trace the genetics behind the weed exactly.

The crushing of the plant does not bother me. How else do you think the world tastes Jamaican weed when not in Jamaica? Shall I conclude that I don't know if I like my Jamaican weed because I am not smoking this particular strain in Jamaica itself with the bud perfectly trimmed and uncompressed? How ridiculous is that!? What do you think Jamaican weed looks like in Amsterdam? Jamiacan weed has been sold and smoked in compressed form around the world for donkeys. It's a benchmark type of import. Just because it's compressed and stored for a long time doesn't mean it isn't of good quality as such. These types of weeds are meant to be stored for a long time so that they become very dark in colour.

Yes it is not presentable in the 2015 high times award. Yes it is not a fluffy trimmed bud in a dispensary. But it is not trying to be, it is trying to be imported Jamaican outdoor bred high grade.

Yes the THC brakes down. It becomes sweet fruity and resinous and transforms into a more stoney high. I like that.

But crushed or not this is still weed which is different to modern 'skunk', mainly in the way it is grown and looked after. And yes I think the buzz is nice.

It is highly likely the genetics of the plant are totally mixed. No I don't have the ability to present you with a perfectly trimmed uncrushed version to compare with. Any suggestion of such is ludicrous!

But I do know why I like it. For the reasons stated above.

 

[sativasam]

isnt this mainly about availability and stuff in the uk? we do not get the luxury of asking for genealogy it is just whats around at the time. so much over here gets called skunk when it isnt because that tends to be one people want and are aware of


as for the argument above, i couldn't give a shit really, all seems a bit of a storm in a weed cup. it is bumping the thread though

Yes it is partly about availability. I frankly don't have any problem getting any modern 'skunk' varieties. But many of my friends who grew up smoking 'skunk' prefer 'weed' or hash instead because it is milder. Some people may have no other access to 'skunk' and may instead consume some form of 'weed'.

The original poster explained how he found modern skunk too strong. That he liked weaker weed. That people said it was weak and not good. But he liked it anyway. He also said he found the good quality weed such as Thai weed harder to come across these days. He then talks about high CBD content and low THC being the likely reason he prefers this type of weed. He then asks "anybody feel the same way?"

 

[ragnorak71]

i am always high, now it just feels like i wake up and top off for the day and thus begins another hazy day...

my connects are pretty decent but one deffo gets more of the good stuff. flavour tends to be very high on my list now i notice. blueberry cheese a personal fav

 

[sativasam]

doing these things DOES affect the flavor and potency, meaning that the "non-skunk," taste/experience you are having could be a direct result of the compression/distance traveled creating that loss of smell/potency... You CAN however have a non-skunk genetic that is well grown and not compressed. THAT is the point, and what I am saying should be discussed.
/discussion...

I do think that is a fair point. And I slightly missed that. I do think that the experience I enjoy could be in part down to the lack of potency due to being crushed. But I wonder how much this potency is damaged? And potency of what? The THC? The THC brakes down into other forms of which the high is 'different' but not necessarily damaged or destroyed. Just different. From my understanding the thing that makes the type of weed (in the image I posted) less 'skunky' is largely due to the way it is grown but also like you say, how it is trimmed, cured, and imported. It isn't treated like a muscle builder steroid freak. You talk about trimming the bud properly, but to be honest because this stuff isn't grown to maximise bud potential, in some cases if you trimmed off every leaf you'd be left with next to nothing on the stalk. What you really seem to be saying is that this could be just any old bud, badly grown, crushed and imported. I can't prove that the weed I have is part of some royal strain. But I know from the smell and look, and who I get it from that it comes from Jamaica. I know you could take some seeds from it, and grow a plant that more closely resembled that of a modern 'skunk' variety. So to clarify, yes I think it is part of the process in which the Jamaican stuff is produced that adds to its 'quality'. And I stress the word 'quality' but maybe i should use the word 'charm'

I'm sorry if i seem argumentative. I felt you were being difficult for the sake of it. I do now see where you were trying to be constructive.

I recently got hold of some organic, high CBD, low THC bud/weed from a friend. Lots of loose leaves on it and it didn't taste half as good as the Jamaican stuff - but the buzz was somewhat similar. I do like this sort of buzz for daytime affairs.

 

[kellya86]

I haven't seen the old thia block weed in at least 15 years. Before 'skunk' was mainstream in uk where I live. Me and my mates had a shoe box full of it. We smoked a huge joint of just seeds. It was disgusting.

Young and dumb.

 

[sativasam]

I haven't seen the old thia block weed in at least 15 years. Before 'skunk' was mainstream in uk where I live. Me and my mates had a shoe box full of it. We smoked a huge joint of just seeds. It was disgusting.

Young and dumb.

 

[sativasam]

@seaofgreens Have you heard of Lambs bread? It was famously Bob Marley's favourite weed.

In the first link you can see an image of some typical Jamaican Lambsbread...

http://www.toostonedtoplay.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/lambsbread.jpg

The next image is Lambsbread grown in the US for a dispensary. The way you would like to see it....

http://cannabest.org/admin420/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/LambsBread.jpg

Now I personally feel the first image, although it looks like shwag at a glance is the Lambsbread I would choose. Call me mad, but I know the sort of flavours that thing has. It's a strong sativa and real Jamaican Lambsbread is hard to come by. Its dark resinous and fruity. The US version of Lambsbread just looks like another form of stinky bud that I can get any day of the week. Its also not grown and cured in Jamaica, by Jamaicans, in a classic Jamaican way, so its not actually Jamaican anymore, and I doubt it has the same dark fruity flavours that one associates with Lambsbread because of how its farmed etc.

You feel me?

 

[fidget]

I'm UK and lucky enough to regularly have access to dispensary grade organically grown strains but I'd happily pay silly money to get hold of some of the high grade imported jamaican "cess" i used to get from moss side in the early nineties.
There was one we used to refer to as "christmas pudding cess" because of it's unique aroma.
It certainly didn't fall into the "bud porn" category but looks aren't everything.

 

[weenstoned]

Looks aren't everything, but I can't imagine picking the first lambsbread posted by @sativasam if the second were available because Jamaicans do not have magic cannabis growing abilities.

 

[seaofgreens]

I see and appreciate your point @sativasam There is a place for all the classic old world techniques and I shouldn't diss them off-hand just because it doesn't look great at face value.

I have tried Lambs Breath (what they called it when I have found it anyways) maybe 3 or 4 different times. I dig it, kinda reminds me of cat-pee phenos. (fruity alkaline/sour sorta smell). Not my favorite, but certainly some good stuff.

As to why bricked weed would lose potency/flavor? Well, this is because the vast majority of the canabinoids and terpenes are found within the ball at the end of the trichome. So at the very least, all the trichomes on the surface will have been smashed, releasing all the terpenes to the environment, and I would hypothesize that a good amount of the internal heads are crushed as well in the process.

@ragnorak71
My argument is indeed a bit convoluted for where we currently stand as a world society, regarding this plant. However it's only natural that if you want to approach cannabis scientifically in any way, you have to choose measurable variables, and build from that data. Otherwise... what's the point?

Genetics, environmental conditions during growth etc. are just that, a measurable variable from which we can stimulate a data based discussion.

 

[ragnorak71]

@seaofgreens
my point is to get stoned and enjoy life, literature and some sad painting of miniatures are my uber geek part of my life. the herb is just the herb and i cant be arsed to start playing top trumps with strains but fill your boots mate and I will happily share in the fruits of your labours

ah what the hell, i am breaking out the water. bring on the bong!!!

 

[RUDE BOY]

http://cannabest.org/admin420/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/LambsBread.jpg

Funny how this actually looks nothing like the LambsBread/LambsBreath sensi bud we got in/from Jamaica in the mid '70s to mid '80s but neither does the other pic of the piece from a brick.

...

 

[sativasam]

Sometimes you get Jamaican high grade so oily you can rub it on the fingers and its so dark its basically black. Like @fidget described earlier as christmas pudding it smells really sweet. I do wonder how they get it like that. I don't think its simply down to compression from importing. It must be more from the climate and the curing. Can old weed be like old wine??? or maybe they spray it with some strong rum!!

 

[bibblybobbly]

MMMMMMMM tasty tasty tasty. You know exactly what I'm talking about.
I'm glad I started this thread because it's been thoroughly educational. As for @seaofgreens's points about the hydraulic press - sure, it's less than ideal. But at least it's not scary fertilizer chemicals - I'd take a bit of compression and loss of high over that shit any day. @sativasam, what you're saying seems in accord with what my guy from St. Lucia told me.

I've learnt:

• a fun, clean high can look like almost anything at all
  
• there are strains out there that aren't psychedelically potent, that do look all light-green, fluffy and dispensary fresh
• until we get legal weed out here, i'm gonna stick with my dark-green/brown weed and imported hashish (except on those occasions when I want to prang)

And it's good to see @sativasam and @seaofgreens shake hands and make up.