Tek Evaporation Chamber - build thread

[2clicker]

i am going to be building an evaporation chamber soon and wanted to start a thread about it. basically i am upping my production standards and will be eliminating heat from my evaporation stage (ethanol evap), but do not want to gain evap time by doing so. so my solution is to build a small enclosed container that will hold my evap dish. one end will have a 4" brushless (important) axial fan mounted to it pulling the air inside the chamber and over the dish and the other end will have 4" flexible duct routed where ever i need it to go. the chamber will not be much larger than the dish itself which i believe will speed evap time up making up for the lack of heat... or so thats the plan. i will have a filter in front of the fan filtering the air on the way in, and the dish will have some sort of cover/filter to protect it even further.

just not sure if i can find a source to power 12VDC fans. can i find a cheap way to be able to plug in a 12VDC fan into the wall? or will i need something like this? or i will have to pony up for the 115VAC fan. all brushless of course. as this build progresses so will this thread.

thoughts?

 

[vape4health]

Just a 12v wall wort, like a log supply.
It may be better to have the fan push air so the fumes never touch any electronic, I know brushless don't have arms but something could always mess up. Only problem with a positive pressure box is that any leak could be a fume leak.
I been mulling over the idea for a evap box/cabinet too.

 

[jdee]

My first thoughts are "how does the solvent escape from your unheated non viscous oil?" and my second thoughts are the following quotes from gray wolf

"If you thin film vacuum cold boil away the ethanol, you can retain the most monoterpenes and carboxylic acids. You can also evaporate it off the other conventional ways using evaporation an heat."

"Lots of difference between a vacuum purge and a blow dry. Even in a thin film, a blow dry requires more heat to keep the film liquid enough for the solvent to escape."

 

[2clicker]

Just a 12v wall wort, like a log supply.
It may be better to have the fan push air so the fumes never touch any electronic

that is exacy what i meant. the fan will blow over the dish and out the exhaust. the fan will not be pulling the air it will be pushing it.

*EDIT* i just realized that i did say "pulling" the air over the dish. i meant to put pushing the air so that the fan never sees fumes.

My first thoughts are "how does the solvent escape from your unheated non viscous oil?" and my second thoughts are the following quotes from gray wolf

"If you thin film vacuum cold boil away the ethanol, you can retain the most monoterpenes and carboxylic acids. You can also evaporate it off the other conventional ways using evaporation an heat."

"Lots of difference between a vacuum purge and a blow dry. Even in a thin film, a blow dry requires more heat to keep the film liquid enough for the solvent to escape."

thin film vacuum cold boil? not sure what that means. im not making a purge chamber. simply an evap chamber to remove the ethanol as quickly as possible w/out heat. im pretty sure i can evap ethanol w/out heat successfully. in fact i know i can. ive done it. it took longer (no chamber) but tastes better that a heated evap. im not concerned with vac purging with ethanol only. im not using butane at all.

i may bring the dish inside after there is no visible liquid left and put it on some heat for a short time. i just dont want the heat on it for the whole 1-2 hours while the ethanol evaps. way too long imo.

 

[darkrom]

Interested in seeing your final product.

 

[jdee]

My understanding was that oil needs to be viscous for trapped solvent to escape, and fully purged oil is not liquid at room temperature, so I can't understand how it's possible to fully purge without heat since oil becomes less viscous the more solvent your purge. but if gray wolf says "The temperature used to drive off the ethanol, depends on what you want to end up with. You can evaporate it away with a fan at ambient, or boil it at 173F at sealevel. We like to vacuum it off for vaporization oil and we boil it off when making decarboxylated sub linguals." then I must be wrong.

Thin film just means spreading out the liquid thinly, like on a pyrex dish, and is the best way to purge ethanol.

 

[SSVUN~YAH]

I've used/use a cardboard box with small intake holes on sides and a CPU fan for the exhaust it works great and like reported tastes better when colder IMO. We call it the real "box that rocks"! Good thread @2clicker

 

[2clicker]

My understanding was that oil needs to be viscous for trapped solvent to escape, and fully purged oil is not liquid at room temperature, so I can't understand how it's possible to fully purge without heat since oil becomes less viscous the more solvent your purge. but if gray wolf says "The temperature used to drive off the ethanol, depends on what you want to end up with. You can evaporate it away with a fan at ambient, or boil it at 173F at sealevel. We like to vacuum it off for vaporization oil and we boil it off when making decarboxylated sub linguals." then I must be wrong.

Thin film just means spreading out the liquid thinly, like on a pyrex dish, and is the best way to purge ethanol.

yes i use a pyrex dish to evap my ethanol. i was just not familiar with the term film being used here. i will be lining my pyrex dish with the Oil Slick PTFE Slick Sheet and evaping directly out of that. after all the liquid is gone i will likely be removing it from the slick sheet and warming (low heat) to get it to a more manageable size.

sorry just wanted to clear something up. technically viscosity means "the resistance of a liquid to flow". the more viscous the more solid. less viscosity means more of a liquid. again not trying to be a know it all, but wanted that cleared for the thread.

from what ive gathered, ethanol evaps from oil easier than tane. so after the liquid has evaped from a dish of QWET its basically gone. i dont think mush stays behind in the oil itself like tane does. i have done straight air evap before with ethanol and my oil has never crackled or sparked on a nail. just melts away. i cannot say with 100% certainty that ethanol evaps any better than tane. i think i may reach out to greywolf/skumkpharm for some input on that.

I've used/use a cardboard box with small intake holes on sides and a CPU fan for the exhaust it works great and like reported tastes better when colder IMO. We call it the real "box that rocks"! Good thread @2clicker

thanks. i think its important to have the fan blowing over the dish with the exhaust on the opposite side of the fan. if the fan is the intake then one could use flexible duct to run wherever you want. im thinking a 5' piece of rigid duct will work well in my case.

this whole unit is meant to be used outside. the duct is just a way to direct the fumes to specific directions.

 

[darkrom]

Why not line it with a slick pad and skip the middleman with the slick sheet. Its fine for ethanol, just not butane.

 

[StickyShisha2]

(my tek)
take turkey roaster bag and attach 2, 2 inch diameter duct hoses to the bottom corners

put the pyrex in the bag and inflate the bag from one of the ducts with a hair drier allowing the other one to point out a window.

perhaps sit the whole thing on a heating pad

 

[2clicker]

Why not line it with a slick pad and skip the middleman with the slick sheet. Its fine for ethanol, just not butane.

well there seems to be conflicting info out there about evaping ethanol in silicone. i emailed Oil Slick, NoGoo, and Dab Wizard about evaping ethanol out of their silicone products and none of them recommend it. actually Oil Slick said to use the Slick Sheet instead of a Slick Pad. the new version of Slick Sheet is made of 100% PTFE. its a raw teflon sheet. more than adequate for safe solvent evporation... any of them. in fact that is exactly what the Slick Sheet is designed for. i will do the short warming of product (to re-size it) on a Slick Pad, but for evaping i will be using the new teflon Slick Sheets.

(my tek)
take turkey roaster bag and attach 2, 2 inch diameter duct hoses to the bottom corners

put the pyrex in the bag and inflate the bag from one of the ducts with a hair drier allowing the other one to point out a window.

perhaps sit the whole thing on a heating pad

creative, but im trying to eliminate as much heat from the process as possible.

 

[jdee]

sorry just wanted to clear something up. technically viscosity means "the resistance of a liquid to flow". the more viscous the more solid. less viscosity means more of a liquid. again not trying to be a know it all, but wanted that cleared for the thread.

from what ive gathered, ethanol evaps from oil easier than tane. so after the liquid has evaped from a dish of QWET its basically gone. i dont think mush stays behind in the oil itself like tane does. i have done straight air evap before with ethanol and my oil has never crackled or sparked on a nail. just melts away. i cannot say with 100% certainty that ethanol evaps any better than tane. i think i may reach out to greywolf/skumkpharm for some input on that.

You are correct in pointing out that I had the definitions reversed, a different kind of dyslexia. The word I should have used was 'inviscid' but I didn't know that word existed until now, thanks!

Not sure where you got that ethanol evaps easier than tane, because what it comes down to is the boiling point of the solvent, where the solvent is able to freely escape into the atmosphere provided the oil is INVISCID! <--first time using new learned word, yay.

boiling point of butane -1 °C
boiling point of ethanol 78.37 °C

or so I thought, until..."The kinetic molecular theory explains why liquids evaporate at temperatures lower than their boiling points."

 

[2clicker]

You are correct in pointing out that I had the definitions reversed, a different kind of dyslexia. The word I should have used was 'inviscid' but I didn't know that word existed until now, thanks!

Not sure where you got that ethanol evaps easier than tane, because what it comes down to is the boiling point of the solvent, where the solvent is able to freely escape into the atmosphere provided the oil is INVISCID! <--first time using new learned word, yay.

boiling point of butane -1 °C
boiling point of ethanol 78.37 °C

or so I thought, until..."The kinetic molecular theory explains why liquids evaporate at temperatures lower than their boiling points."

now we have all learned something.

ill try to get some more input on the subject and post what i find.

about the chamber... a pic of how i picture it going down is below

(mods can you update the OP with this pic at the end? and maybe put "1st draft" on top of it?)

 

[DabComa]

I use old computers for their power supplys to run 12v applications like fans and such, I even have an amplifier and subs from a car in my room for my subs on my surround system powered with an old pc tower power supply, pretty neat anyway, neighbors might not agree though lol.

 

[darkrom]

You might be able to speed up evaporation time if you add a push/pull setup. One fan pushing air into the evap box, one on the opposite side pulling air out.

 

[Snake Plissken]

I have no real experience w/ vac chambers, but thought I'd share my concern as an application specialist. When dealing w/ solvents and solvent based materials, brushless fans are not enough. Explosion proof fans/lights/switches are required. W/ an explosion proof fan, all of the electronics are enclosed in a separate, sealed compartment - placed outside of the vapor path. This keeps any spark from contacting the fumes. Cast aluminum blades are typically required for 'non sparking' applications as well. Not sure if this is as much of an issue w/ ethanol as with other solvents, but thought I'd share.

 

[jdee]

I have no real experience w/ vac chambers, but thought I'd share my concern as an application specialist. When dealing w/ solvents and solvent based materials, brushless fans are not enough. Explosion proof fans/lights/switches are required. W/ an explosion proof fan, all of the electronics are enclosed in a separate, sealed compartment - placed outside of the vapor path. This keeps any spark from contacting the fumes. Cast aluminum blades are typically required for 'non sparking' applications as well. Not sure if this is as much of an issue w/ ethanol as with other solvents, but thought I'd share.

I've looked around for an explosion proof fan like the one pictured here that gray wolf uses, but haven't had any luck finding one, if anyone knows where to find these that would be great!

 

[vape4health]

I believe some are confusing a vacuum evaporation chamber with what 2clicker is making. I see it as replacing the saucer by the window with a fan blowing on it. I see the need, maybe due to us using alcohol and not butan? I too would like to cut most heat from my process but keeping all this husky hair out of my oil will be awesome too.

Edit: nice freakin fan, that would be perfect too and safe.

 

[Snake Plissken]

The explosion proof fans are readily available and can be easily found on ebay or google search. The problem is the pricepoint. $1k - $1500 is typically the starting price on lower end to mid range units. You will see units on sites like alibaba that claim to be explosion proof, but are really only centrifugal fans. One of the keys to making sure the fan is really explosion proof is that all electronics are sealed in a box that lies outside of the air path. I will admit to spraying hundreds of gallons of volatile materials inside w/o one, but it sure makes you nervous. I've been looking for a large one for cheap for a long time - and haven't found it.

A cheap trick that may help some is duct taping a filter (like a furnace filter) to the back of a box fan to help control dust/debris. This, coupled w/ creating a 'clean area' w/ visqueen will cut down on contaminants a lot. I would feel safer pushing air through a well filtered intake, than extracting solvents through the fan. If you built a filtered box for the fan that allowed you to taper down to a 4" or 6'' connection, you should have a strong enough 'push' to avoid any backdraft (as long as you vented the outtake far enough away). I've seen guys modify fans like this w/ cardboard and duct tape. If I was to try something like this, I would put the intake/outtake holes high/low enough not to disturb the product. This may all be moot, as it seems like many are doing a fan powered purge on ethanol w/o any problems.

 

[2clicker]

You might be able to speed up evaporation time if you add a push/pull setup. One fan pushing air into the evap box, one on the opposite side pulling air out.

i thought about that, but want to see what one fan will do.

I have no real experience w/ vac chambers, but thought I'd share my concern as an application specialist. When dealing w/ solvents and solvent based materials, brushless fans are not enough. Explosion proof fans/lights/switches are required. W/ an explosion proof fan, all of the electronics are enclosed in a separate, sealed compartment - placed outside of the vapor path. This keeps any spark from contacting the fumes. Cast aluminum blades are typically required for 'non sparking' applications as well. Not sure if this is as much of an issue w/ ethanol as with other solvents, but thought I'd share.

well in theory with a sealed box (except w/ input and output) the fan should never see any fumes at all as it will constantly be pushing air/fumes away from it.

no youve got me thinking... oh boy

 

[2clicker]

A cheap trick that may help some is duct taping a filter (like a furnace filter) to the back of a box fan to help control dust/debris. This, coupled w/ creating a 'clean area' w/ visqueen will cut down on contaminants a lot. I would feel safer pushing air through a well filtered intake, than extracting solvents through the fan. If you built a filtered box for the fan that allowed you to taper down to a 4" or 6'' connection, you should have a strong enough 'push' to avoid any backdraft (as long as you vented the outtake far enough away). I've seen guys modify fans like this w/ cardboard and duct tape. If I was to try something like this, I would put the intake/outtake holes high/low enough not to disturb the product. This may all be moot, as it seems like many are doing a fan powered purge on ethanol w/o any problems.

if tou take a look at my pic above you will see my design has in intake filter and as long of an exhaust as needed.

i googled explosion proof fan and found some nice small ones for around $300. not sure i can swing that pricepoint tho. i suppose i may scrap the whole idea and just rely on a breeze to help me out.

 

[2clicker]

so im thinking this project is dead as of now. i am going to source a "hazardous location" or "explosion proof" fan. they are more than i wanted to spend tho. i may end up just getting an HL/EP motor and then build a fan for it. should be much cheaper to do that then to buy a fan ready to go. i have access to motors of all kinds for cheap.

so for now this project is on hold, but i do plan on finishing this build at some point.

 

[Roger D]

I think you could get this working for cheap : a charcoal filter, that doesn't emit particles (you can even use a used one), a regular extractor with a good cfm, and simply add a long, even very long, distance of duct between the fan and the box. With a continuous air flow, everything properly done I don't see the conditions for ignition. The problem is if you mount the fan stuck on the box.

I have thought about that, a lot. Ethanol extraction is the most realistic way for me to obtain quality clean oil, since I don't have specific oil extraction equipment. I'm thinking about recovery using my copper distillation setup. It's an almost closed system but I'm not sure about safety and where I would run it for best security.

 

[2clicker]

I think you could get this working for cheap : a charcoal filter, that doesn't emit particles (you can even use a used one), a regular extractor with a good cfm, and simply add a long, even very long, distance of duct between the fan and the box. With a continuous air flow, everything properly done I don't see the conditions for ignition. The problem is if you mount the fan stuck on the box.

I have tought about that a lot too. Ethanol extraction is the most realistic way for me to obtain quality clean oil, since I don't have specific equipment.

yeah ive been thinking about ways to make this work w/out spending hundreds, but im looking for a sure way to eliminate the chance of boom happening. the charcoal filter idea is interesting... would like to hear more.

i drew up some oher ideas with the fan mounted a foot or two away, but it would need something to keep the air concentrated and directed i to the box. this would mean a sealed tube or something that the fumes could possibly travel through (if fan isnt on full time) and get back to the motor.

i feel like the only "sure way" to avoid disaster is to use a fan/motor specifically designed for such fumes. there are dif classes of Hazardous Location/Explosion Proof fans/motors. class 1 is specifically made for "sovent extraction fumes". that is what i want.

 

[Puffers]

You could use a barometric (weighted) closing sealed damper from the fan input to the box so that if the fan was not on it would seal the fan off from infiltrating fumes in your evaporation chamber. I have to ask though with all trouble to setup would it not be easier (possibly cheaper too) to make a vac chamber setup for evaporation of your solvents? Although if your set on ethanol I would invest in a reclaim distillation unit