Tek ABV Concentrate experiment: What method is best?

[mmenzie]

so the evaporation completed (i think) i am able to scrape the pan with a blade and get a gooey oil on the blade, but here's the part i didn't think about... how do i get it off the blade and where do i store it after i do till i get my cartridge to put it in??

 

[Puffers]

so the evaporation completed (i think) i am able to scrape the pan with a blade and get a gooey oil on the blade, but here's the part i didn't think about... how do i get it off the blade and where do i store it after i do till i get my cartridge to put it in??

I use a really small glass jar I scrape it on the edge of the jar and melt it with a torch into the container then use a dabber or a paper clip to load my carts with.

http://www.specialtybottle.com/glassvialsmi.aspx

I use a 5/8 dram jar I believe

 

[mmenzie]

am i scrapping too soon??? seems awfully gooey and very sticky. if i touch it it sticks and stains my fingers

 

[Puffers]

As long as you gave it a good purge you should be fine. Once i jar my oil i normally hit the jar with the torch a bit to make sure its all purged out. If the product your running is decarb'ed (ie ABV or old dry product) the oil will be more syrupy then a shatter anyway.

 

[mmenzie]

i don't have small jars like the ones on that web page, so i scraped the oil onto the rim of a baby food jar i had and it's kinda slowly sliding down the glass into the jar. i'm kinda worried though.. if it goes into the jar and i needed a blade to scrape it off the pyrex pan, how will i get it out of the jar? kinda hard to scrape inside it

 

[kingofnull]

am i scrapping too soon??? seems awfully gooey and very sticky. if i touch it it sticks and stains my fingers

That is pretty runny. You can always throw the dish in the freezer for a bit to harden it up and make it easier to scrape.

 

[mmenzie]

well i already scraped the pan and now all my gooey oil is on the rim of a baby food jar. if i stand the jar up it may drip into the jar. like i said it's gooey but not runny. like it moves so slow you can't see it move but when i had the jar upright whenever i looked back it seemed like it was heading into the jar

***EDIT*** i have an omicron fill tool but no cart right now.... should i just fill the fill tool and position it so it doesn't drip out of it?? then when i get my cart i can attach then use a torch to fill the cart

 

[weedemon]

there is a 2nd problem too. these gasses are heavier or lighter than air?

read the stories of people who lit them selves on fire, or blew up their house/apartment.

"I saw a lake of fire on the floor all around me..." This was for butane, but iso is also heavier than air. (google it) this means it won't easily float away, instead it will pool like carbon monoxide. maybe you have a furnace? those have pilot lights right?


I don't mean to sound like a dick but it's serious and I don't want anyone getting hurt!!

you should always try to do this in a well ventilated area. Preferably next to an open window, with a fan, blowing towards your solvent so that you are not sucking combustible fumes across electrified motor windings.

yes exactly!! good on you for spelling it out!

I have done it from a 2nd' floor doorway onto a balcony (same as if it was on a window...)

but if i have the option I always do this step (evap) outdoors. once the liquid has boiled down into syrup (decently thick and tacky, will no longer run very much.) i go inside to finish it off. (either in the oven, or double boiler on the stove)



moving on....

regarding insufficiently purged oil:

you can always reheat your oil and continue to purge it further! back in the pan on the double boiler and use your blade to smear it back out a bit.

oils will still run even when properly purged. depends on the strain and ambient air temperature of your house/ environment.

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

I'm thinking... I have a bit of ABV ISO oil (scale says .8) in a little container... shall I try mixing it with some Nutella tomorrow night? Maybe only .4?

 

[weedemon]

sure give it a go. but yeah i would try half, see what happened and then do more later if you wanted to.. but a tip. if you aren't feeling anything try vaping some regular herb and see if anything happens.. (usually I find you will become very retarded lol)

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

sure give it a go. but yeah i would try half, see what happened and then do more later if you wanted to.. but a tip. if you aren't feeling anything try vaping some regular herb and see if anything happens.. (usually I find you will become very retarded lol)

I always top the edibles off with a bowl or three Tomorrow I'm gonna get half a gram of oil and try it out in my ThermoVape Ultra. So excited! I should sleep now so that when I wake up I can leave. I can already imagine the taste

 

[mmenzie]

so what is "purging" and how is it done?

 

[Puffers]

Purging is just continued evaporation of the solvent using either heat or vacuum.

 

[2clicker]

heres a question... if doing ABV and reclaim runs with either EverClear or ISO... will the additional oven purge help harden the product? I find my ABV and reclaim oil stays pretty viscous. oh and since neither taste great i usually mix them together.

my results are harder when i do fresh flower runs. i never use the oven purge either way, but may start to if it makes it easier to handle.

i use Omi carts for the ABV/reclaim oil and a dart for the fresh run oil.

 

[Puffers]

No higher heat seems to create a more runny oil. I think any ABV run is going to come out as more of an oil rather then a shatter or wax consistency because of the decarbing through vaporization.

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

No higher heat seems to create a more runny oil. I think any ABV run is going to come out as more of an oil rather then a shatter or wax consistency because of the decarbing through vaporization.

It's not the absolute easiest stuff to work with, but I've noticed that at my room temperature, I can scrape some ABV QWISO out of the container with a dabber, take it off, and roll it between two fingers into a little ball or cylinder. I've got to remember to be nimble about it, though, because the line between not sticking to your fingers and becoming a mess gets exponentially thinner the longer it's subjected to body warmth. If I stick it in the freezer for a bit, it "shatters" off but, again, quickly returns to room temperature consistency.

 

[weedemon]

^
what he said!

the heat makes it runny in the moment, not the final product. slow and low heat (to minimize the loss of the flavour of the strain) is best imo (for the time pressed). no heat would make a tastier end product. (ie no heat and a 1-2 day+ sitting out in the open "purge" no heat at all. it takes time though...)

I believe that heat will further harden your final product because, think of it this way... heat makes the oil runny. runny(or hotter) oil is less viscous and will more easily allow the butane to boil out. (it boils at -1 degree C) meaning at the end you will have gotten rid of more butane.

you can also vac purge if you really want to go all out.

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

The warmer it is, the more moisture is purged, but this only applies to an extent. Less moisture = harder oil in my (limited) experience... The way I did my ABV ISO, I was able to scrap it off the plate, then put it into the container and let it sit on top of my mini-fridge to purge the rest of the moisture. I'm kinda bummed I don't have any left to get, my batch came out indica as fuck and feels like I took a pill of Vicodin (a 5-500 hydrocodone/acetaminophen pill), but with the tolerance I had, the "stone" only lasted around 45-60 minutes.) Still, I got enough to last me around 10 days, from stuff that I wouldn't vape otherwise.

I actually found some all-natural peanut butter that I mixed ABV into. I took it around 9.30pm. I estimate that I took around 1g of ABV total, as well as .4 of ABV. I woke up stoned, almost 11 hours later, and ate the most I've had for breakfast in at least 3 weeks. I ate so much, that my mom actually asked me (later) if I had medicated before breakfast. I'm hovering around 129lb, which for me is quite a healthy weight.

 

[dankd420]

One opinion on shatter vs oil is that THCA is shatter, and THC is oil. One method of turning THCA into THC is with the application of heat, so your ABV will always make oil, never shatter. This is just opinion i've read though, not enough experience to comment myself.

DankD

EDIT: some context, from a user jump117 who is well respected over at icmag

At room temperature, extract with mostly THCA is hard and brittle,
but with mostly THC has the consistency of thick resin and never hardens to brittleness.

Melting Point THCA 70~80°C, 158~176°F, THC ~40°C, ~104°F.
THC dissolves more easily than THCA.
Extraction of the decarboxylated material is more complete and leaves less or no residual resin in the cake.

I prefer to first extract the amber of THCA, and then dry and decarboxylate material to extract the residual viscous THC resin.

In comparison with a solid amber, consistency of the extract from decarbed material is very inconvenient for the collection and storage.
In the process of decarboxylation all fragrances evaporate from the resin, which makes it boring for smoking.
So I mix it with chocolate right there on the evaporator plate.

It is very easy to turn THCA amber into a viscous THC resin, by heating to release the bubbles of CO2, which is a visible sign of decarboxylation.

 

[Cymbaline]

Hey Weedemon, with your experience what do you think of the instructions for this new Liquidizer butane oil extractor? http://www.liquidizer.com/instructions

In the "Advanced Section" there is information on de-waxing oil and there is a whole different write-up / technique of making bho e-liquids / e-juice for ecigs. I've had great results direct dripping concentrated liquids (70:30 oil to base), and hope to post photos of my next oil runs. We are trying to start a dedicated thread here

 

[weedemon]

hey man,I have been away for a while please don't take my word as gospel, it's just my experience and what I have learned so far! I am wrong all the time just like everybody else! Just a normal person over here

that said, that setup looks really nice makes the process look pretty easy.

I've not really read into it yet however. But I appreciate you bringing it to my attention! cheers

 

[Benny Lava]

Hello! This is a slight amendment I have discovered since creating this thread that the best way to treat your abv is to do a butane extraction, and then dissolve that in ethanol (to extract the fats and waxes the butane extracted). filter and purge. this will leave you with oil that you will be just amazed with. the time and effort to make it is worth it! The taste and effect that this cbd/cbn rich concentrate has is very effective! especially when combined with something that has a standard, or regular thc dose to compliment it!

It is pretty impossible in Germany to get 99% ethanol that hasn't been denatured (and I'm not going near that stuff, I mean it has been poisoned on purpose; whether you drink it or inhale it, that stuff can't be good for your body).
I'm far from being a chemist, so here goes my question:

Could I use 99% ISO for dissolving and extracting the waxes and fats? ('cause I got plenty of ISO)

 

[Bouldorado]

I'm not a chemist either, but the theory behind the dual-solvent method is that one is polar and the other is non-polar. ISO would work, providing that it's polarity is the opposite of butane.

 

[Benny Lava]

According to Über-Chemist Google that is the case, but now I'm confused about the filtering and purging part. Do I fill the casserole with ISO and spray the Butane upon the ISO? Or what is the right way to do this? And what do I filter through what?

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

Do the butane run first, purge it completely, then mix it with the secondary solvent. Might help to do itin a shot glass or small cup? Then filter that and re-purge.