Vaporbrothers 2.5

[THC SCIENTIFIC]

Ok so here is what we are doing.


Making the VB2.5 all glass air path. First prototype that came out needs some work but its workable.

reaches 700F in 1 minute.

More testing to follow.

 

[biohacker]

Making the VB2.5 all glass air path.

I would have expected this, but what about an all glass vapour path? Silicone is not something i'm willing to compromise on.

reaches 700F in 1 minute.

I like the sound of that!

 

[THC SCIENTIFIC]

@biohacker I might have worded my statement wrong.

The prototype vb2.5 we are working on is an all glass air path and vapor path.

Now the speed of the temperature is based on the prototype parts, might be slightly different on the production version.

 

[Vitolo]

Then, I understand they have the 10mm straws, but id like to see something better for medical users.

This is from a VB2. It is the 10MM Straw that @vaporbrothers spoke of

(Image from 2014).
I am still using it!

 

[rasmundi]

VB had "all glass" vapor pathway accessories available and all were unwieldy and awkward to use. The medical grade silicone is easier, more comfortable and safer. All vapor pathway parts are effectively coated and biologically isolated after the first hit, anyway....

Any "noise" around that issue is simply counting grains of sand on the beach...

Ok so here is what we are doing.


Making the VB2.5 all glass air path. First prototype that came out needs some work but its workable.

reaches 700F in 1 minute.

More testing to follow.

I believe that fresh out of the box we were getting 17sec heat times, my current iteration is going on 6-7 months after a re-build and its running ~34sec till lit.
Would 1min heat cycles degrade to 2min after "rigorous" use?

 

[invertedisdead]

VB had "all glass" vapor pathway accessories available and all were unwieldy and awkward to use. The medical grade silicone is easier, more comfortable and safer. All vapor pathway parts are effectively coated and biologically isolated after the first hit, anyway....

Any "noise" around that issue is simply counting grains of sand on the beach...

Effectively coated with a solvent....

I would not put silicone anywhere near an essential oil vaporizer. Platinum cured medical grade silicone is not terpene friendly.

 

[THC SCIENTIFIC]

@rasmundi i believe i was told that it takes 30 seconds for the heater to get up to speed new or old, I hoever am open to hearing customers feedback on this and will look into it as well.


As for the all glass air path, i am more of a perfectionist. I want to eliminate all possibilities of issues even if there is none.

So having the all glass air path to me is the ultimate goal on anything we do at the moment, until a better solution comes up.

 

[rasmundi]

Effectively coated with a solvent....

I would not put silicone anywhere near an essential oil vaporizer. Platinum cured medical grade silicone is not terpene friendly.

Well, as long as you can avoid licking the inside of the tube that specious argument is just those nattering grains of sand I mentioned. You should be much more concerned with "new car smell" than six inches of medical grade tubing.

THC - Certainly, I understand that you need to cater to all types of customers, so offer your all-glass alternatives for the OCD - just as long as more workable options are still configurable for the 99%ers.

The problem here is that the device does heat-sink and is not really hand-friendly when running, so getting all-glass plumbing to your mouth in a neck/back/hip/knee friendly position is quite challenging.
Furthermore, reclaim on this beast is a bitch. Long vapor pathways on this device mean more cleaning than dabbing, because nothing collects hot vapor like cold glass...

 

[THC SCIENTIFIC]

@rasmundi for sure, an all glass air path is only an option for the ones who want it and a bare bones system should be available for anyone who does not wish to have the top of the line unit.


On the other issue of "hand friendly," that was my first issue when using the unit for the first time.

On our prototype unit we have been able to reduce internal temperatures by 60 degrees but more testing is needed and we are moving towards another portion of the unit to decrease temps even further.


Lets hope it works.

 

[biohacker]

@rasmundi it's not OCD, FUCK SILICONE! Fucking GROSS plain and simple. I've had all the best platinum medical grade stuff and it all stinks like SHIT after only one use. Impossible to clean, tastes gross...it's not even in the same ballpark as glass as inertness.

http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/spallation.1827/

http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/silicone-offgassing-is-it-a-health-concern.19154/

But hey whatever floats your boat. There is an "expert" in one of the rosin threads slamming long squishes, even though it's some of the best rosin i've ever experienced.

 

[MileHighHuman]

All glass. No silicone is required.

So no chance of creating this thing to use convection heat rather than conduction?

The form factor could use some upgrades if possible.

Making it handheld would eliminate the awkward sitting positing required to use/inhale.

Making it via some type of 18mm female form factor would be another great option. But im not too sure how exactly that could be completed.

Do we think making the surface area smaller or larger would effect the experience positively or negatively?

Would making the lid hole help create more of a carb cap like effect?

Hi All, we're mainly working on reducing the expense and rerouting airflow, also playing with some ideas that make it do low temp dabs better.

@MileHighHuman I agree with the @PPN comment that carb cap & 100% convection wouldn't be in the same device. But 100% convection for oils is interesting... To me, a maker of a 100% convection vaporizer for 19 years now, I've never gotten a blast of hot air to vaporize oils quickly enough to not just inhale a bunch of flavor with no punch. The oil melts and gets everywhere without evaporating. Regarding VB2.5 we're going for the same thick cloud that dabbers expect from nails. I've seen handheld convection devices that are supposed to vaporize both oil and herbs- You get the weak essence, not really a proper dab. For an insulating substance like herb, 100% convection is the best way to get the heat deep into where it needs to go. For wax/oil, which is more of a conductive substance, conduction seems to be the best way to heat them. But I'm open to keep trying air... It might need a very high temperature blast of air.

- Digital / precise temperature control.​

Awesome, we're on it. VB2.5 is precise but there's no room in the housing for a digital display (and it would stink like plastic)... but we're considering what we can do.

- And all glass air path. Im not into silicone. Then, I understand they have the 10mm straws, but id like to see something better for medical users. It would cause my neck more pain to use those straws compared to the relief id get from the using the device.​

We have an inline bubbler that makes this device totally self contained, like the straw did. If you need an all-glass way to get the vapor to you, check out the all-glass airpath pic below. It won't be flexible like the high temp silicone hose but it will get the mouthpiece closer to you.

Thanks for the feedback! Need more as we go along. Glad to have @THC SCIENTIFIC on this!

Ill agree lots of convection vaporizers do not provide sufficient results, but there are some that do.

Ive actually had great success with the Sublimator at high temperatures. Vaporization speed was almost as fast as conduction, but also provided much better flavor and smoother vapor.

My main issue was the hot Sublimator atomizer would sometimes get in the way and cause conduction if oil ever ran onto it. Loading the oil pads were a pain the ass too.

Anyways, convection concentrates with good results are possible. But, high temps are needed and so some type of device that is designed specifically for convection concentrates is what im looking for.

This is from a VB2. It is the 10MM Straw that @vaporbrothers spoke of

(Image from 2014).
I am still using it!

This is one of the best / simplest setups i've seen for the VB 2.5

Do you feel comfortable picking the device up and using it handheld?

That should help people avoid triggering any neck/back pain. Correct?

 

[Vitolo]

Do you feel comfortable picking the device up and using it handheld?

No I do not.
I always leave the unit sitting on a flat surface.
After a number of good dabs, it becomes very warm to the touch.
This tool is not a convection tool.
This is a hot surface made for dabbing.
This is a "Concentrate Converter".

 

[MileHighHuman]

No I do not.
I always leave the unit sitting on a flat surface.
After a number of good dabs, it becomes very warm to the touch.
This tool is not a convection tool.
This is a hot surface made for dabbing.
This is a "Concentrate Converter".

Thats unfortunate to hear about not being able to use it handheld, and then yeah I understand it uses the conduction heating method, but @vaporbrothers had mentioned interest in possibly inventing some type of convection device for concentrates that actually provides high quality results.

 

[invertedisdead]

@MileHighHuman what's the supreme interest in convection concentrates? I don't see how it could provide a better experience than the tech out now. Specifically insert drops, that's the way to dab IMHO, starting from cold.

 

[MileHighHuman]

@MileHighHuman what's the supreme interest in convection concentrates? I don't see how it could provide a better experience than the tech out now. Specifically insert drops, that's the way to dab IMHO, starting from cold.

Respiratory issues.

I've tried lots of materials via conduction (sapphire, sic, quartz, titanium, stainless steel, ceramic)

But all of them cause me major mucus / sinus inflammation.

I understand not everyone has these issues im experiencing, but I feel we can still say/assume convection heating is the healthier option (compared to conduction)

Because ive found that winterized concentrates vaporized via conduction are acceptable for my issues. I still prefer convection heating, but im assuming the fats/lipids in non-winterized materials vaporizing on the hot conduction surfaces might be the factor, because when vaporizing those same materials that have not been de-waxed via convection, there wasn't nearly as much negative feedback from my body.

Also what are insert drops?

 

[invertedisdead]

I understand not everyone has these issues im experiencing, but I feel we can still say/assume convection heating is the healthier option (compared to conduction)

Because ive found that winterized concentrates vaporized via conduction are acceptable for my issues. I still prefer convection heating, but im assuming the fats/lipids in non-winterized materials vaporizing on the hot conduction surfaces might be the factor, because when vaporizing those same materials that have not been de-waxed via convection, there wasn't nearly as much negative feedback from my body.

But it takes higher temperatures to vaporize with convection so the chances of you vaping those fats and lipids just goes up compared to a conduction setup. I've never met anyone that uses cannabis frequently that doesn't have a mucus problem.

Expectorant - "a medicine that promotes the secretion of sputum by the air passages"

When you winterize you remove many of the harsher mono terpenes which is likely responsible for much of the noticeable smoothness as many of those terps, such as alpha-pinene, are known expectorants.

I don't agree convection is healthier, I find the hot air very irritating over time.

Insert drop https://www.instagram.com/p/Bg9viYdnSJ8/?taken-by=eternal_quartz

 

[biohacker]

I've never met anyone that uses cannabis frequently that doesn't have a mucus problem.

I know we've never technically met, but Never, ever do I experience mucus.

Expectorant - "a medicine that promotes the secretion of sputum by the air passages"

Irritants do that as well!

I don't agree convection is healthier, I find the hot air very irritating over time.

100% in agreement. Just my n=1, but you are well aware of my recent biohacking experiment with convection extracts, and hot air is what cripples my lungs more than anything else.

 

[invertedisdead]

I know we've never technically met, but Never, ever do I experience mucus.

I'd wager you may be in the minority. I could be way off, I assume its rather common. I might start a poll.

 

[biohacker]

I'd wager you may be in the minority. I could be way off, I assume its rather common. I might start a poll.

Probably. Never even heard of others experiencing mucus until @Alexis and @MileHighHuman ! Coughing yeah, but never mucus. I guess I just experience negative side effects in other ways lol. Never seen any of my buddies coughing up shit either...weird.

 

[Alexis]

I've never met anyone that uses cannabis frequently that doesn't have a mucus problem.

Expectorant - "a medicine that promotes the secretion of sputum by the air passages"

Easy dude. Just to add a little perspective. You say "mucus problem", but the concept that vaping thc etc causes mucus expellation via an expectorant action is not exactly a problem, more of a benefit. It is aiding the body and lungs in that sense, rather than causing a mucus problem.

Whereas when you mentioned yesterday how virtually all daily vapers experience mucus, I took you to mean inevitable negative effects, as a pose to the experience of mucus production/expellation simply being the removal of already present mucus from daily environmental assault.

There is admittedly some irony in my own experience vaping. It is a double edged sword. The allergy causes mucus production but at the same time the expectorant action does help with clearing out mucus from my airways, especially the die-off mucus from my treatments.
And it is usually the larger inhalations, providing they are not too hot and harsh, which have an immediate and very noticeable expectorant action.

Mark McCoy of Vriptech is himself a firm believer in the benefits of vaporizing and the role it plays in clearing out the lungs in a beneficial way. And he specifically states that it is the larger inhalations which are most effective, as if to suggest that you will never get the same level of expectorant action from many smaller hits compared to a large one.

Btw not challenging you @invertedisdead or disagreeing. Just adding a little thought that's all. I have vastly inferior knowledge and experience of these subjects, the all round aspects of vaporizing. Heck I've never even seen a concentrate before so I shoukdn't even try and comment really.

@biohacker yeah sure thing bro, Im a rare case, in terms of the extremity of my mucus and the all round complications and total pervasiveness. But Im sure I have heard of others with similar, but greatly less severe, issues.

 

[vapirtoo]

Just started with concentrates and the coughing and mucus is much more than with flowers. I chalked it up to the higher thc levels. My lungs feel better in the morning after coughing and spitting out mucus the night before.

 

[Alexis]

Just started with concentrates and the coughing and mucus is much more than with flowers. I chalked it up to the higher thc levels. My lungs feel better in the morning after coughing and spitting out mucus the night before.

See how it goes with time, in relation to the above discussion regarding mucus and be expectorant action of vaporising (although admittedly it is the Holy Grail which is responsible rather than the vaporizers, right @ataxian ?).
So see if you notice it decline and level off, which it might if what you are experiencing is possibly due to the concentrates having a far greater expectorant action then flowers for you personally and clearing you out of stuff which just wasn't getting cleared out fast enough before.

I hope this proves to be the case anyway for your sake and the rest of us.

 

[ataxian]

See how it goes with time, in relation to the above discussion regarding mucus and be expectorant action of vaporising (although admittedly it is the Holy Grail which is responsible rather than the vaporizers, right @ataxian ?).
So see if you notice it decline and level off, which it might if what you are experiencing is possibly due to the concentrates having a far greater expectorant action then flowers for you personally and clearing you out of stuff which just wasn't getting cleared out fast enough before.

I hope this proves to be the case anyway for your sake and the rest of us.

I smoked GORILLA FINGER like JOINT's before VAPORIZER & H2O WP'S.

Too smoke a JOINT NOW?
The taste would not be the same!

VAPE until DEATH!

 

[invertedisdead]

Friends I made a thread here specifically about this to carry on this conversation. http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/d...tion-from-frequent-vaping.26690/#post-1237388

 

[THC SCIENTIFIC]

I want to just say this.

In theory Convection is the best, but hot air can be an issue for lots of people. The vb2.5 is conduction and nothing i can do to change that.

My current goal is to make an all glass air path for the 2.5 as an option for anyone who wants to go that extra step.

However a convection desktop for oils I am also working on is the Odyssey and that can be discussed in that thread.


I also want to address the situation about the hot to the touch. We have tested a version of the vb2.5 that reduced internal temperatures by 50 - 60 degrees which in turn reduced outside temperatures as well. We want to reduce another 10-30F internally, if we can I think we passed a major hurdle.