WTF Is Wrong With America And Gun Control?

[Mr. Gweilo 420]

No private citizen needs a gun. Simple really.

 

[Dustydurban]

The Devil weed people are insane
How could we possess firearms or have any sane thoughts about firearms
Who needs guns?

 

[lwien]

The Devil weed people are insane
How could we possess firearms or have any sane thoughts about firearms
Who needs guns?

Are you suggesting that we all may be a bit myopic on this subject?

 

[Krazy]

So are you saying that those who are diagnosed as being mentally ill should be able possess firearms?

I don't have any answers. I would say that not all "mental illnesses" are created equally. I do think we would need to dial it in a bit better than "diagnosed as mentally ill" = no gun. Especially if we want people to seek treatment. We already have laws in place for "danger to themselves and others" people.

If we are going to ban the mentally ill form owning guns because they have a higher suicide rate than "normals" do we ban the normals for having a higher rate of gun violence?

While I think workable solutions exist I do NOT think any are actually workable politically in the USofA. Given that we view "a well regulated militia" as equating to the right for everyone to own a bunch of guns unless and until proven unfit?

As long as the default setting is "owning guns" nothing is really going to change. And I really don't see us changing to "No ownership unless you go through an arduous vetting process to earn the right."

 

[Dustydurban]

Perhaps,
I just read somewhere in a little red book
"He who has the guns makes the rules"
I just want to make sure who is making rules
But then again I may be crazy?

 

[Mr. Gweilo 420]

The fact that this kind of incident is uniquely American speaks volumes.

 

[florduh]

And I really don't see us changing to "No ownership unless you go through an arduous vetting process to earn the right."

Cool. We can just ban them. Sorry, but the free-for-all we have now is going to end. Soon. I was just trying to come up with a reasonable compromise to keep AR-15's legal.

The fact that this kind of incident is uniquely American speaks volumes.

Exactly. The rest of the civilized world doesn't live like this. It's embarrassing.

 

[Dustydurban]

Chairman Xiiii would never allow such a thing to occur
how uncivilized us Yankee dogs are
Who needs guns?

 

[Krazy]

Fuck-A-Doodle-Do!!!!

I just had to close a thread else where in the interwebs due to card board cut out Demotards and Republicunts unleashing a shite storm of brainless talking points upon each other.

Credit to posters here for maintaining at least a veneer of civility.

 

[Tranquility]

Kinda makes me sick to my stomach thinking about how many kids that one cop could have saved but chose not to. In a way, he's almost as guilty as the shooter himself. And the other cops that didn't go in after the shooter left while those kids were bleeding out? WTF ?!? I'm getting pissed all over again.

I think the failures on many governmental levels is horrible.

This particular incident might well have been stopped if people just did the jobs they promised they would and were paid to do.

When the facts come out, I suspect I will be on the same page as @lwien here, the first officer on the scene makes me sick. A person who swore to protect children and was placed specifically to do so, didn't.

The only thing I want to wait for is the training in their department. While we all assume it is the right tactic to go in and stop the active shooter the moment one arrives on scene, this was not the tactic before Columbine. Secure the scene and wait for SWAT was what they were taught before then. The reason was, prior to Columbine, terrorists and criminals were the ones who were the problem. If they haven't started killing by the time the police arrive, it was a hostage situation and running in would have just gotten people killed. Their goals were different from the child killers of late.

I have not read any news articles that have pointed to what the Sheriff's standards and training are for an active shooter situation. If the training was as is in most modern police departments in the country, I am sickened by the cowering deputy.

One more fact is needed to feel that way about the 3 other Broward deputies who were reported to be mustering outside the school as well when the Coral Springs police came and entered. That fact has to do with even if they were trained to enter on an active shooter situation, there are some who are saying part of their intelligence on the situation was from security video showing the shooter leaving the school. If they had that intelligence and were no longer treating it as an active shooter, not entering aggressively might make some sense.

 

[lazylathe]

2014 Russia had their first school shooting. It happens every where. Guess what.....mental illness is the link....not the type of weapon. You can also google knife attacks. Tons in other countrys which inforces what I said about them finding a tool of destruction if guns were banned.

This from 2009:
https://www.npr.org/sections/parall...u-s-has-more-guns-but-russia-has-more-murders

Interesting except:
"Russians have far fewer guns than Americans — and far more homicides.

There are fewer than 13 million firearms in circulation in Russia, compared with an estimated 300 million in the United States. That works out to about 9 guns per 100 people in Russia and closed to 100 guns per 100 people in America.

The most recent homicide statistics for Russia show that there were 21,603 killings in 2009.


According to the FBI, the United States had 13,636 homicides in 2009 with a population that is more than twice as large. More than 80 percent of those killings were gun-related.

It's difficult to make a direct comparison of gun homicides in the two countries because Russia doesn't break down its murder statistics.

And some on the Russian gun laws: (Very interesting!!!)

Russian Gun Laws

Russia has tough gun laws on the books. It's illegal for Russian citizens to own automatic and semi-automatic guns. It's possible to apply for a handgun or shotgun license, though citizens are required to provide reasons such as hunting or target shooting.

Applicants face strict background checks, including criminal history, a full psychological evaluation and a medical exam. They must pass a test on firearm laws and safety.

Each weapon is then registered by the police during a home visit. Police take bullet patterns, test bullets and cartridges so bullets can be matched if the gun is used in a crime. A license lasts five years, after which applicants must go through the whole process again.

In spite of these laws, the country does have periodic mass shootings by people thought to be mentally ill.

Last November, after a five-day drinking binge, 30-year-old lawyer Dmitry Vinogradov posted a message online referring to humanity as "compost."

Shortly after, he walked into the Moscow pharmaceutical company where he worked and opened fire, killing six colleagues and critically injuring another. He was jailed for life last week.

 

[howie105]

On the deputies not going into the school. There is the possibility that adding more gun shots into that chaotic situation would have just made things worse, on the other hand maybe not, we just don't know. Till we get the full story I can't make an informed decision so praise or condemnation stay on the shelf.

 

[Newcastle]

Israel armed their teachers in 74 and have only had two school shootings. Teachers killed the shooter both times. So maybe arming teachers isnt so crazy? Again no one wants to arm all teachers. Only those that can and will protect our children.

 

[Alex3oe]

For ma as an European this whole discussion is pure madness

 

[howie105]

For ma as an European this whole discussion is pure madness

Thats no surprising its not your culture, history or country. I am sure we could find folks from other places on the planet who would think that both of our cultures are fucked.

 

[Doktor Dub]

Kinda makes me sick to my stomach thinking about how many kids that one cop could have saved but chose not to. In a way, he's almost as guilty as the shooter himself.

perhaps he was just scared to death? i know that is not like he is supposed to do his job but..... i can understnad that, going into as school and actively kill children... not so much...

 

[Newcastle]

In America we chose not to be sheep. You dont need to arm yourself because no one is ever killed in Europe.

 

[Alex3oe]

Thats no surprising its not your culture, history or country. I am sure we could find folks from other places on the planet who would think that both of our cultures are cultures are fucked.

It`s not "fucked" or something, most of my friends know guns only from TV and never have seen one in real. Simply it`s a complete different situation here.

 

[CarolKing]

I’ve worked over the years at schools. The fact that our students have to practice a shooter on campus drill monthly is pure madness. Our children shouldn’t have to worry about going to school and being safe. True there is always going to be crazy people but don’t make it so easy for them to buy guns. There hasn’t been a single teacher that I’ve talked to that believes teachers should have concealed weapons. They went into teaching for a reason and it wasn’t to become a police officer or security guard.

I have read there are a few areas in America that teachers are keeping concealed weapons. More than not disagree with this idiotic notion. It’s insanity! There’s got to be better answers than this for a safe society.

Edit
I’m so proud of these High School students. It’s going to be from the mouth of babes for the answers. I think they are the only ones that will change things. On March 24 we will see a march on the capital grounds.

 

[Alex3oe]

A very good friend of mine who`s emigrated to the US wrote the following these days:

"Inoculating the next generation with the idea that men running around randomly killing people is just a fact of life."

 

[Newcastle]

Carolking I guess you were talking to the wrong teachers. It's been reported that teachers are lining up to take classes to carry. Ohio is were I believe that story came from. It will never be required of all teachers and no one wants the little old English teacher packing heat. But if the football coach or someone fit and willing no matter what they teach actually. If I was a kid and in school while it happens I dam sure hope someone has a gun to stop the shooter! Screw waiting on cops and now not knowing if they have the balls to come in! The adults that were killed in Parkland shielded kids with their bodies! Don't you think they wished they had a gun at that moment?......This is just how I see it......we all come from different backgrounds and ideas.

 

[lwien]

If they had that intelligence and were no longer treating it as an active shooter, not entering aggressively might make some sense.

With kids bleeding out from gunshot wounds, pls tell me what kind of sense that makes? If the active shooter has left, you immediately go in to try and save lives, not stand around waiting for someone else to do it. In these kinds of situations, seconds can mean the difference between life and death.

Credit to posters here for maintaining at least a veneer of civility.

I spray myself down with that veneer every morning before I get out of bed but every once in awhile I forget and then I have to frantically go searching around for that damn spay bottle and if it happens to be empty, all fucking bets are off.

 

[Tranquility]

With kids bleeding out from gunshot wounds, pls tell me what kind of sense that makes? If the active shooter has left, you immediately go in to try and save lives, not stand around waiting for someone else to do it.

The whole point of training is to have members act as they are trained. If the training makes no sense, change the training.

As to the potential considerations once we get together on the panel with Sheriff Israel to determine how we should train our deputies; we might consider how much value a small group of police officers are to treating potential victims of the shooter that has left the building versus catching and stopping that shooter that is now out in the greater community. If we determine we should have the relatively untrained deputies enter to apply first aid that the teachers and other school personnel cannot for some reason, we might better equip them with some of the modern battlefield wound care dressings available. (And, maybe reduce some of the stop bad guy training and up the help victim training--or get the money for more training.)

Edit:
All that being said, I JUST read (So can't confirm. The source is "theblaze" and they...often have other motivations than just reporting the news.), the deputies actively prevented EMS from entering the scene until they cleared it.

https://www.theblaze.com/news/2018/...-of-how-botched-florida-shooting-response-was

According to the first responder, everything about the response was completely botched.

“Everything I was trained on mass casualty events says they did the wrong thing,” he explained. “You don’t wait for the scene to be cleared. You go in immediately armed. Retrieve the victims. You can’t leave the victims laying there.”

“We were asking to go in. Asking the scene commander to go in. Why are we all standing around? Why are we not having patients to treat? Why are we not going into the building and retrieving these kids? The response every time was law enforcement did not clear the scene and would not allow medical personnel to go in,” he added....
​

Looks like the Sheriff might have some 'splainin to do, I mean, some trainin'.

​

 

[CarolKing]

Carolking I guess you were talking to the wrong teachers. It's been reported that teachers are lining up to take classes to carry. Ohio is were I believe that story came from. It will never be required of all teachers and no one wants the little old English teacher packing heat. But if the football coach or someone fit and willing no matter what they teach actually. If I was a kid and in school while it happens I dam sure hope someone has a gun to stop the shooter! Screw waiting on cops and now not knowing if they have the balls to come in! The adults that were killed in Parkland shielded kids with their bodies! Don't you think they wished they had a gun at that moment?......This is just how I see it......we all come from different backgrounds and ideas.

You live in a different part of America than I do I guess. No other comment it’s ludescris. You’re right we come from different backgrounds.

 

[Dustydurban]

Construct schools as safe as jails
Have Veterans guard them
Simple answer
Oh and countries citizens that are unarmed seem to get
Chairmans or Presidents for Life
How convienent
Maybe thats what we need here?
Who needs Guns?