Crackdown on Legalized Marijuana

[florduh]

This thread exists because of Trump derangement syndrome.

@OldNewbie That last line is where I decided providing detailed responses to you isn't worth it any longer. The only people who use terms like "Trump Derangement Syndrome" are those who consume Right Wing Media exclusively. Rational debate with such people isn't possible. And frankly, I find calling this entire thread a symptom of "derangement" to be insulting. There are very valid and rational reasons to worry about what Trump's Justice Department is planning to do with cannabis.

I know it seems like I'm just shilling for Dems. I'm not. I'm simply noticing that EVERY bill for Federal Legalization or protections for the Cannabis Industry is overwhelmingly supported by Democrats, rather than Republicans. You seem unwilling to accept that simple fact and have been unable to refute it.

If we all want to pretend that reality isn't true, ok. We are living in the age of alternative facts.

TDS. Don't let it happen to you.

 

[Kosherbubba]

Canada is going to pay off their deficit selling weed as they will control all the sales, while USA keeps calling it a schedule 1 drug! Can you imagine if the legalized it like Canada. Tons of money to be made. Hopefully you neighbor will create pressure to legalize it nation wide in the U.S. I say after a year or 2 when you see in Canada drunk driving. car crashes down, less violence etc. Than an only than will some of your lawmakers which profit from the big pharmas will give in.

In fact a recent survey done with Canadians indicated that once they get weed they will take alcohol less.

 

[florduh]

Canada is going to pay off their deficit selling weed as they will control all the sales, while USA keeps calling it a schedule 1 drug! Can you imagine if the legalized it like Canada. Tons of money to be made. Hopefully you neighbor will create pressure to legalize it nation wide in the U.S. I say after a year or 2 when you see in Canada drunk driving. car crashes down, less violence etc. Than an only than will some of your lawmakers which profit from the big pharmas will give in.

In fact a recent survey done with Canadians indicated that once they get weed they will take alcohol less.

I've made the point that if the Government was going to get into the Nanny State Business, telling us which recreational substances we can and can't use... they should prohibit alcohol and allow cannabis. We'd see a reduction in crime, healthcare costs, and accidents. Of course, prohibition never works with any substance.

The problem is, we already HAVE ran this experiment in Legal States. I've heard States referred to as the "Laboratories of Democracy". Well, guess what. We've run the "Legal Weed" Experiment for years now. It was a success in those States. Time to roll it out nationwide. Unfortunately, we aren't governed based on evidence and rationality.

I'm not convinced seeing a success with Cannabis in Canada will do much to convince our hardline Drug Warriors. But I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

 

[Tranquility]

@OldNewbie That last line is where I decided providing detailed responses to you isn't worth it any longer. The only people who use terms like "Trump Derangement Syndrome" are those who consume Right Wing Media exclusively.

Yet another of your theories that is wrong.

@OldNewbieRational debate with such people isn't possible.

Rational debate is based on reason and logic--not emotion. I'm afraid it is difficult to have a rational debate with a side that values how they feel about things so much.

And frankly, I find calling this entire thread a symptom of "derangement" to be insulting. There are very valid and rational reasons to worry about what Trump's Justice Department is planning to do with cannabis.

NOTHING THAT IS EVEN CONSIDERED BY SESSIONS REACHES THE ACTUAL ACTIONS TAKEN BY THE PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATION. Nothing. Equating what one fears might happen to what actually happened within recent memory is a sign of derangement. I think using the term appropriate.

[QUOTE="florduh, post: 1207678, member: 20783"]I know it seems like I'm just shilling for Dems.[/QUOTE]Yes.

[QUOTE="florduh, post: 1207678, member: 20783"]I'm not.[/QUOTE]As you say.

[QUOTE="florduh, post: 1207678, member: 20783"]I'm simply noticing that EVERY bill for Federal Legalization or protections for the Cannabis Industry is overwhelmingly supported by Democrats, rather than Republicans. You seem unwilling to accept that simple fact and have been unable to refute it.[/QUOTE]You seem fairly well informed. How is it you brought in the Koch's to the discussion in a negative way?

[QUOTE="florduh, post: 1207678, member: 20783"]If we all want to pretend that reality isn't true, ok. We are living in the age of alternative facts.[/QUOTE]This is why I keep bringing up sizzle and lying eyes. As has been demonstrated to you repeatedly in this thread, what you have stated just ain't so. I'll leave it to you to determine if what you stated was what you believed to be the reality.

 

[florduh]

This is why I keep bringing up sizzle and lying eyes. As has been demonstrated to you repeatedly in this thread, what you have stated just ain't so. I'll leave it to you to determine if what you stated was what you believed to be the reality.

Show me one recent Pro-Cannabis Bill that has more Republicans than Dems signing on to it.

Hell, show me one that has an EQUAL number of Dems and Republicans signing on to it.

Every bill you've provided as "evidence" of how great the Republicans are on Cannabis, has had mostly Democrat supporters.

By the way, quoting single words from my statements to help you make a point seems a bit dishonest, no?

 

[mitchgo61]

Well, that didn’t go well.
https://www.marijuana.com/news/2018...na-policy-opposed-by-83-percent-of-americans/

 

[Tranquility]

 

[florduh]

@OldNewbie That's a dodge. When a REPUBLICAN proposes a legalization or protection bill for Cannabis and he is mostly supported by Dems and NOT his own party.. I'd say it is one side's fault.

I hope more Republicans come around on Cannabis. There is no reason for them not to at this point.

 

[Tranquility]

@OldNewbie That's a dodge. When a REPUBLICAN proposes a legalization or protection bill for Cannabis and he is mostly supported by Dems and NOT his own party.. I'd say it is one side's fault.

I hope more Republicans come around on Cannabis. There is no reason for them not to at this point.

 

[TeeJay1952]

 

[florduh]

@OldNewbie Well you've said something I agree with. I'm not an ideologue. There are a few conservative intellectuals/writers I enjoy. None of them are Trump fans and I don't agree with them on every point, but I don't think one side is "evil". I just think based on voting records alone, one Party is demonstrably better on Cannabis in 2018. Not perfect, but better.

I posted a USA Today article a few posts back about how Cannabis Business Owners are giving more to Republicans right now. They control most legislatures so that makes sense. And if there's one thing that will change a Politician's mind, it's that sweet sweet cash.

 

[Deleted Member 1643]

This thread exists because of Trump derangement syndrome.

@OldNewbie That last line is where I decided providing detailed responses to you isn't worth it any longer. The only people who use terms like "Trump Derangement Syndrome" are those who consume Right Wing Media exclusively.

As OP, @OldNewbie is technically correct on this point. Busted!

Clearly suffer from TDS. Alienated remaining friends, estranged family, and could lose a job. Desperately needed to talk about it, but all of the political threads were shut down. Crackdown provided golden opportunity.

The year has been a valuable, if sobering, experience. Feeling a little better. Revived interest in so many issues that seemed to be progressing. Climate change, in particular, has offered some consolation. Learned that after we finish our mass extinction, Earth will almost certainly recover from us in ten million years or so. Worried it would be like Venus forever. Once our time here has been reduced to a thin line of plastic between layers of rock, there might even be little racoon or prairie dog people scurrying about. Very comforting.

 

[Tranquility]

@OldNewbie Well you've said something I agree with. I'm not an ideologue. There are a few conservative intellectuals/writers I enjoy. None of them are Trump fans and I don't agree with them on every point, but I don't think one side is "evil". I just think based on voting records alone, one Party is demonstrably better on Cannabis in 2018. Not perfect, but better.

I posted a USA Today article a few posts back about how Cannabis Business Owners are giving more to Republicans right now. They control most legislatures so that makes sense. And if there's one thing that will change a Politician's mind, it's that sweet sweet cash.

 

[grokit]

Once our time here has been reduced to a thin line of plastic between layers of rock, there might even be little racoon or prairie dog people scurrying about. Very comforting.

I love it; we are the virus that needs to be eradicated, so that life can go on without us

I'm thinking that the rescinding of the cole memo was just to distract us from other outrages.

 

[florduh]

As OP, @OldNewbie is technically correct on this point. Busted!

Clearly suffer from TDS. Alienated remaining friends, estranged family, and could lose a job. Desperately needed to talk about it, but all of the political threads were shut down. Crackdown provided golden opportunity.

The year has been a valuable, if sobering, experience. Feeling a little better. Revived interest in so many issues that seemed to be progressing. Climate change, in particular, has offered some consolation. Learned that after we finish our mass extinction, Earth will almost certainly recover from us in ten million years or so. Worried it would be like Venus forever. Once our time here has been reduced to a thin line of plastic between layers of rock, there might even be little racoon or prairie dog people scurrying about. Very comforting.

I'm truly sorry you're having a hard time. Honestly, taking a break from the News isn't a bad thing every now and again. The pendulum always swings back the other way. Unfortunately for Trump, his vile rhetoric as a candidate and President is going to cause the pendulum to swing even faster to the other side than if a normal Republican was enacting basically the same policies.

As for climate change, I am thoroughly embarrassed that the leader of our Nation considers climate change to be a "Chinese Hoax". He couldn't have said anything stupider to be honest. All countries have Conservative Parties. Only ours obstinately denies science in this way. But really, this isn't about saving "the environment". The Environment will be just fine. We are trying to save human civilization here. You'd think everyone would at least agree on THAT goal.

I love it; we are the virus that needs to be eradicated, so that life can go on without us

I'm thinking that the rescinding of the cole memo was just to distract us from other outrages.

LOL. You might be right. And I'm still thinking most US Attorneys don't want to get involved in the shit-show that a dispensary crackdown would be. Also, a lot of legal States would prevent local and State Law Enforcement from assisting the DEA in any raids. What a mess a crackdown would be.

 

[Deleted Member 1643]

I'm truly sorry you're having a hard time.

Thanks - proud McGovern Democrat. Imagine how different things might have been if he had won.

Born into the world before Neil Armstrong stepped onto the moon. Such promise, such disappointment.

11/9 felt almost as bad as 9/11. A wake-up call followed by a sustained stress test that gets tougher with each passing day.

 

[shredder]

Thanks - proud McGovern Democrat. Imagine how different things might have been if he had won.

Born into the world before Neil Armstrong stepped onto the moon. Such promise, such disappointment.

11/9 felt almost as bad as 9/11. A wake-up call followed by a sustained stress test that gets tougher with each passing day.

Like an old hippy, that i proudly am, I've returned to the earth. We grow our own food, and medicine. Less stress for me when I'm busy working. Haul water, stack wood......Donald who?

 

[Kosherbubba]

. they should prohibit alcohol and allow cannabis. We'd see a reduction in crime, healthcare costs, and accidents. Of course, prohibition never works with any substance.

Absolutely. Alcohol hands down causes fatalities, family problems, addiction, a whole list of other ailments. For what its worth the only downside about cannabis is if someone is genetically prone to psychosis or schizophrenia the THC strains will aggrevate or awaken it. However, studies have show the CBD actually helps pychosis patients, depression, and mood disorders.

I still can't get why the U.S. has classified cannabis as bad as phentynol, LCD. In fact a while back someone intervied Obama on that same question and he was like dumbfounded. Hmmm, We will look into that " was his answer.

The only side effect cannabis it can cause worsening anxiety if you are using daily in the amount of 1 gram per day or above. Other than that only 6 percent of users get addicted and even if your are addicted the withdrawal symptoms are less than nicotine, alcohol.

I do not know all the fuss about legalization

 

[hd_rider]

I still can't get why the U.S. has classified cannabis as bad as phentynol, LCD. In fact a while back someone intervied Obama on that same question and he was like dumbfounded. Hmmm, We will look into that " was his answer.

To understand how we ended up here, it is important to go back to what was happening in the United States in the early 1900’s just after the Mexican Revolution. At this time we saw an influx of immigration from Mexico. Not surprisingly, these new Americans brought with them their native language, culture, and customs. One of these customs was the use of cannabis as a medicine and relaxant. During hearings on marijuana law in the 1930’s, claims were made about marijuana’s tendency to cause men of color to become violent and solicit sex from white women. This imagery became the backdrop for the Marijuana Tax Act of 1937 which effectively banned its use and sales.

While the Marijuana Tax Act of 1937 was ruled unconstitutional years later, it was replaced with the Controlled Substances Act in the 1970’s and brought forth President Nixon’s “War on Drugs”. But from its inception, the war on drugs has been a ruthless, relentless and naked war on minorities, especially African-Americans. In an interview in Harpers in 1994, disgraced Nixon White House advisor John Ehrlichman made the frank admission that the war on drugs was not about law enforcement getting a handle on drug sales and use, but another weapon to lock up as many blacks as possible. "We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the (Vietnam) war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin. And then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities," Ehrlichman said. "We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did." But an admission by the federal government that the laws are biased and unfair, and have not done much to combat the drug plague, would be an admission of failure.

 

[Kosherbubba]

While the Marijuana Tax Act of 1937 was ruled unconstitutional years later, it was replaced with the Controlled Substances Act in the 1970’s and brought forth President Nixon’s “War on Drugs”. But from its inception, the war on drugs has been a ruthless, relentless and naked war on minorities, especially African-Americans. In an interview in Harpers in 1994, disgraced Nixon White House advisor John Ehrlichman made the frank admission that the war on drugs was not about law enforcement getting a handle on drug sales and use, but another weapon to lock up as many blacks as possible. "We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the (Vietnam) war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin. And then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities," Ehrlichman said. "We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did." But an admission by the federal government that the laws are biased and unfair, and have not done much to combat the drug plague, would be an admission of failure.

Awful. just plain awful that a society which allows this to happen exists in a free country. Land of the free. Awful that MJ had to be punished because of ruthless lawmakers. Very true and admission of legalization would be an admission of guilt and stupidity of not granting people access to easy medicine. But I feel its more than than. I feel now they are locked into the heavy money making pharma companies which would lose billions if people can us MJ freely nationwide.

What bothers me the most is in some states where some children are experiencing debilitating siezures and the government knows MJ is th only thing that helps them. These parents have to move to an MJ legalized state to help their child. Shame on them. They allow phentonyl (the mass killer drug) to be sold in pharma but a simple harmless mj flower that heals the child they can't allow. WTF is wrong with this picture. Its insane!

 

[grokit]

Another aspect was the abject racism of the word marijuana itself, which these 1930's drug warriors introduced into the popular national parlance in order to demonize it. Racist because it was a term only known to mexicans, so basically they saw it rightly as a law against them. Cannabis, otoh, was well-known in the usa and was in well over 10,000 (maybe 30k) different otc remedies at the time. Available at your local drugstore! If these bastards (hearst, dupont, bush; yes those bushes) had tried to pass laws against cannabis, which was only harming the big donors' bottom lines, they would have failed miserably.

 

[Kosherbubba]

Another aspect was the abject racism of the word marijuana itself, which these 1930's drug warriors introduced into the popular national parlance in order to demonize it. Racist because it was a term only known to mexicans, so basically they saw it rightly as a law against them. Cannabis, otoh, was well-known in the usa and was in well over 10,000 (maybe 30k) different otc remedies at the time. Available at your local drugstore! If these bastards (hearst, dupont, bush; yes those bushes) had tried to pass laws against cannabis, which was only harming the big donors' bottom lines, they would have failed miserably.

Just incredible that these meds were used in your local drugstore for healing purposes. Dang can you just imagine the research regarding MJ would have occured if it was legalized a century ago. The probably by now would have made a cure to cancer from MJ. Researchers in Japan have isolated an MJ strain that actually kills cancer cells in rats. Buts it at its early stages because those bastards demonized it 100 years ago. Unbelievable that MJ got got in the crossfire of racism, politics, and just plain stupidity.

 

[nickdanger]

Just incredible that these meds were used in your local drugstore for healing purposes. Dang can you just imagine the research regarding MJ would have occured if it was legalized a century ago. The probably by now would have made a cure to cancer from MJ. Researchers in Japan have isolated an MJ strain that actually kills cancer cells in rats. Buts it at its early stages because those bastards demonized it 100 years ago. Unbelievable that MJ got got in the crossfire of racism, politics, and just plain stupidity.

There may have been a lot of research, but it would most likely have been suppressed. Cancer is big business, so anything that appears to be a "cure" will be demonized and outlawed. TPTB are constantly attacking and outlawing various avenues of alternative/natural medicine because it would devastate the pharmaceutical industry if folks began treating their ailments with anything other than their lab-created concoctions. Can you imagine the impact if everyone was able to self-treat with a common plant? The medical industry in the US comprises approximately 1/5 of the economy. Their focus is not on curing anything, but treating chronic diseases such as cancer and diabetes which generate HUGE profits for the industry.

And no, I do not believe that universal health care is the answer.

 

[Kosherbubba]

There may have been a lot of research, but it would most likely have been suppressed. Cancer is big business, so anything that appears to be a "cure" will be demonized and outlawed. TPTB are constantly attacking and outlawing various avenues of alternative/natural medicine because it would devastate the pharmaceutical industry if folks began treating their ailments with anything other than their lab-created concoctions. Can you imagine the impact if everyone was able to self-treat with a common plant? The medical industry in the US comprises approximately 1/5 of the economy. Their focus is not on curing anything, but treating chronic diseases such as cancer and diabetes which generate HUGE profits for the industry.

And no, I do not believe that universal health care is the answer.

Bingo! you could not have said it better. Its not because MJ is dangerous, toxic, or what have you. Its because like you said the pharma will be loosing big time if people were able to grow their own medicine and heal all. Most drugs in pharma only help the symptoms of the disorder, there is rarely a cure. The government knows that MJ decreases the amount of pharma medication you need. Its been proven. So why legalize something that would decrease pharma profits which is a huge part of U.S. economy. Very good point.

 

[TheSkipper]

New deregulation bill proposed by a Republican. No extra redistrubution stuff in this one. Sorry for the crass typing, not a lot of time at the moment

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/1227/text