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Divine Tribe atty's

elmoe420

Well-Known Member
I thin you guys are overlooking what you do not want to see. There is indeed solder on the new ceramic rods. Take a closer look at the pics / videos on the jetstream (same ceramic heaters as the QQ) and the pics for the replacement ceramic rods alone.

....

That is correct here. The 2 open cylinders / tubes where the ceramic rods slides into are not sealed, so you can remove and replace the rods in the event they fail on you. If it was sealed in there like han solo, yes, that would "isolate" the heaters from the airpath and probably improve heat transfer, but that would also be much harder to design / produce economically, and make the whole atty less "RBA" :(

So a little bit of hot air swirling around from the mouthpiece tube will mix with air heated from touching the ceramic rods, but that's of little concern to me, other than wasted airflow potential maybe

I think in my mind I had inadvertently munged the prototype QQ you have with the heaters in the final release. Meaning I thought Matt had actually gone the route this time of a coil inside the alumina tube. You are of course absolutely right, now that I look at the picture of the tubes again they have an embedded wire and solder just like the donuts.

The OF post is super informative (the bit at the end always makes me laugh) and I thought Matt did have the v3 donuts tested for off gasing but can't find the post to the report? @divinetribe?

I do think as you said these are concerns rooted in suspicions but not actual data. However, I also understand the fear even if unwarranted. The attitude many people seem to adopt is "avoid unnecessary materials at all cost". This reductionist design philosophy for vapes isn't a bad one but I do think there is a a literal cost that comes with it.

For example, an alternative could have been to leave the SS wire leads poking out after embedding the coil into the alumina. Then the non resistance wire could have been attached to the SS via a gold crimp. That is more expensive materials though and I imagine would add substantially to the assembly and QC costs (not to mention introducing another point of potential failure).

Tradeoffs as always of course! Personally not going to fret much as long as the solder is actually silver and appears properly sealed/coated as OF describes. As always, it would be awesome to see a materials report and results of off gasing test. Probably the easiest way to alleviate any customer fears (even if unfounded).
 

21stCenturyVape

Well-Known Member
I wonder how well a thick silicon o-ring/gasket placed snuggly around the quartz cup would work to seal off the air path from the heating element? This would obviously affect heating efficiency of the quartz cup but might be a quick and cheap solution for anyone concerned.
 
21stCenturyVape,

invertedisdead

PHASE3
Manufacturer
I wonder how well a thick silicon o-ring/gasket placed snuggly around the quartz cup would work to seal off the air path from the heating element? This would obviously affect heating efficiency of the quartz cup but might be a quick and cheap solution for anyone concerned.

I would be more concerned about hot silicone offgasing than the solder. Silicone is not a very vaporizer friendly material in my opinion and experience. O-rings on a mouthpiece are about as much as I want to tolerate silicone.
 

2clicker

Observer
Just my :2c:, I think you should just buy the whole QQ kit, (not just the parts) b/c the cup stand-alone is very tall, narrow, and would be difficult to mount in a very stable way in the type of e-cig RDAs you use, and it could be even more difficult to target some airflow into the cup. This quartz cup without well-targeted airflow would probably work poorly, if at all.

Get the whole atomizer/kit, and you can remove the quartz cup and heaters to try it in an RDA application if you think it may work, and then you can fall back to the complete QQ atty setup after that fails :)

idk. pretty sure i could easily fit that cup into either my Vandy Vape Mesh RDA or one of my Rafale X attys. securing it wont be an issue at all.

as for the airflow... how is a not perfectly directed airflow going to stop the cup from vaping? do the heaters rely on airflow to operate? or are you saying itll just burn the dabs? i find it hard to believe that the airflow provided by my RDAs wont be sufficient for a nice vape out of those quartz cups. we arent talking about a lot of space here.

ive run donuts in cups before in my Rafale X. air flow hitting below and above the cup (dif builds) and both worked great.

time will tell! :rockon:
 

invertedisdead

PHASE3
Manufacturer
or are you saying itll just burn the dabs?

With this design you just don't want too much airflow or you'll start cooling down the load. The cup relies on the directional airflow to move the oil across hotter parts of the cup to produce vapor instead of the oil just running or pooling from the heat via capillary effect.
 

2clicker

Observer
With this design you just don't want too much airflow or you'll start cooling down the load. The cup relies on the directional airflow to move the oil across hotter parts of the cup to produce vapor instead of the oil just running or pooling from the heat via capillary effect.

i see. but that one tube in there, is only going to flow air in one direction... wont that make it pool the opposite direction?

also the site says things like “let cool 3-5 mins between each session” and “swab after each session”... what is a “session” here? is each dab a session? so if you want back to back dabs, maybe with friends, it is recommended to wait 3-5 mins between each dab? or is a a “session” a few dabs?
 
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invertedisdead

PHASE3
Manufacturer
i see. but that one tube in there, is only going to flow air in one direction... wont that make it pool the opposite direction?

It seems to function pretty closely to a directional flow carb cap off a quartz banger at spinning the oil.


also the site says things like “let cool 3-5 mins between each session” and “swab after each session”... what is a “session” here? is each dab a session? so if you want back to back dabs, maybe with friends, it is recommended to wait 3-5 mins between each dab? or is a a “session” a few dabs?

No idea about the cool down time, but you'll want to swab after every use to avoid the quartz from gunking up from thermal degradation byproducts.
 

2clicker

Observer
It seems to function pretty closely to a directional flow carb cap off a quartz banger at spinning the oil.




No idea about the cool down time, but you'll want to swab after every use to avoid the quartz from gunking up from thermal degradation byproducts.

interesting on the swirl effect. may have to cop the whole kit after all.

as for gunk... so every dab eh? gotcha
 

PandaLee

Well-Known Member
I'd assume cool-down times will be directly reflective of how much concentrate you put in. If it's a little a little 2 hitter, then probably like a minute to two. If like the video above or a little more, like 4 good hits or more, then probably the three minutes to five. I'll definitely experiment once I get it....but a lot may depend on your mod and battery sizes too
 

2clicker

Observer
id like to see a SS cap for this device. one of my friends is gonna drop this thing i just know it.

I believe he has taken multi hits off that dab & then
is cleaning it before he refills. (I hope so , lol)

well by “dab” i mean each “load”. i would only load enough for one rip at a time as anything left in there for another rip is gonna be flavorless. i would not want to apply a load and hit it multiple times. sure it will work, but those following hits wont have that flavor.
 

Bad Ocelot

Well-Known Member
Hey guys! Been a while! Hadn't posted as my vape game has been pretty stable for a while but just saw this bad boy came out & had to try one. Hopefully it'll be here this weekend. Gonna set up an arctic fox profile for it, I'll let you guys know what settings I end up with.

Loving the look of the directional airflow! Strong work @divinetribe ! However it does look as if the cup likely requires top airflow to function properly, fluid dynamics & whatnot, so I'd probably stick with the stock glass cap as opposed to sticking it in another rda.

As for swabbing frequency, probably depends on a number of variables like load size, type of concentrate, temp, etc. I probably wouldn't do more than 3 loads without wiping it out so as to get the best flavor. & if it does get gunked up you can always do an iso soak, warm water rinse, then torch clean whatever remains.

Thanks for the heads up on that eleaf invoke @Vape Donkey 650 ! May have to pick up one of those. If the Mrs. asks, I'm blaming you, ha. & that jetstream RDA looks awesome as well, I'm sure I'll buy one as soon as it comes out too!
 

2clicker

Observer
watched the video again. appears this device is suited for situations when being discreet is not an issue. and when time isnt an issue. seems it takes min for it to really get up to temp. so maybe not ideal for being in public...?

my interest is definitely peaked though. ill have to order one when i can sneak it into my budget.

oh and i checked the site for the replacement parts, but only found the heaters for the cup. will the cup be available as well?
 

looney2nz

Research Geek, Mad Scientist
This is from the ineedhemp website listing for the QQ:


If using TCR 470 or TC-Ni mode (TCR 600) I think that high # is probably "padding in" some additional heater-coil warmup to factor in for the delayed heat transfer to the quartz cup. I would expect the "real" accurate TCR # of the rods themselves to be in the 200-300 range, for matching surface temps and mod screen numbers on direct-conduction vaping, like with the V3 or the new jetstream RDA.

My new, final version QQ is in the mail too, so I'll look forward to testing out these ceramic rods in a stand-alone TCR tuning session, and then try to convert that to a fairly stable, accurate, higher TCR # to combine the rods + quartz cup heat profile. Maybe Matt is already pretty close at TCR 470?

This could be quite a project for the TC nerds to find the best way to tune the QQ. TFR / FSK modes are probably useless for this atty. Plain TCR mode has it's limitations, but when used with PI control and some pre-heat, maybe we can get something closer to the stable temp control we seek?



Should be no need to discharge 70 watts anywhere near that long, that would exceed the limits of most people's equipment and will probably break stuff. TC operation should regulate max watts to just a few seconds at a time.

15 second cut offs may be annoying, but it seems the QQ atty might benefit from brief, non-button-pressing breaks in between power cycles, as to not over-heat the quartz cup.

This also makes @funkyjunky's "tubomyevic" firmwmare a tempting option to free up your thumbs during an extended session with the "cruise mode" :cool: It works with many mods that people use with DT products. (many joye-leaf-smec models) I've already mused about how that firmware could be a great match for the DC Gen 2 herb atty also, but I don't use that vape much, and the good word is slow to spread :shrug:



I think you'll be ok with the Vtwo mini single-cell mod and the new QQ. Running 70w isn't necessary, you can go lower for a slightly slower warmup to be easier on the batteries. It looks like Matt is lowering the recommended wattage a bit, also. It looks like he did all his testing on a 75w pico, while I used 2 cell mods, I think it is more advisable to get a 510 adapter / heat sink to protect your mod on extended usage. The battery and mod work alot better if they can stay cool, and the new QQ atty radiates much more heat than the V3 :o (but similar to the Gen2 herb?)

But don't let that discourage you from getting some bigger mods if you want that to be a pretext :D A 2 or 3-cell mod will let you get many more sessions between charges, obviously, and it won't work the batteries as hard and hot, although extended QQ use can still overheat the CPU on a multi-cell mod too, with a little more work (that might take 4-5 very rapid back to back sessions? who wants to force-feed vape to themselves to make their mod's CPU overheat with the QQ? :ko: for science! :science:)




Just my :2c:, I think you should just buy the whole QQ kit, (not just the parts) b/c the cup stand-alone is very tall, narrow, and would be difficult to mount in a very stable way in the type of e-cig RDAs you use, and it could be even more difficult to target some airflow into the cup. This quartz cup without well-targeted airflow would probably work poorly, if at all.

Get the whole atomizer/kit, and you can remove the quartz cup and heaters to try it in an RDA application if you think it may work, and then you can fall back to the complete QQ atty setup after that fails :)

The ceramic rods are neither "solid ceramic" nor "porous" IMO, it's somewhere in between. It's not like a really smooth, crystalline macro-surface like a quartz banger; it does have some texture. But it doesn't "wick up" or absorb much oil into its surface like a generic silica ccell coil, or the SiC wick on W9 products do, oil can "roll off" the rods like on a ceramic donut. These alumina ceramic rods actually can wipe / swab clean pretty easily when you heat them mildly, like the donuts. And you can give it a good scrape or scratch, the ceramic will stay intact, not falling to dust or flakes.

In the configuration shown there, I can see some oil rolling off the rods during usage, but NBD, that's what dab tools are for, just scoop it back up on top where the heat is to finish the session if you want. Lots of people are already doing that with toothpicks and skinny dab tools with the V3 donuts and cups.



I do agree it would be nice to have more mouthpiece options, like a removable 510-drip tip. (An 810 drip tip would probably be an invitation for splashed oil to touch your lip, and all that extra airflow & diameter at the MP opening will be un-needed and wasted with the limited airflow tubes on the cap)

Metal tips are ok sometimes, but they do get that lip gunk. I have big crusty vaper lips so I know about that. :D Just gotta wipe it off as needed :shrug:

Adjustable airflow would be really cool, but I don't know how you can implement that on this jetstream RDA? The whole concept is heavily reliant on the angled-air-tubes shooting air diagonally, from up top, onto the build deck. Maybe with some airflow control ring regulating the air intake to the 2 tubes, like on some of the better RTAs, but that would be rather large and complex (never been done yet in a concentrate RDA? Not in the VV pulse? But in the govad yes?) so I don't see that in the future of this product...fun to speculate though....:sherlock:

"get a 510 adapter / heat sink to protect your mod on extended usage."

suggestions?
 

2clicker

Observer
interesting on the swirl effect. may have to cop the whole kit after all.

i just realized... what is the ID of those glass caps? ill bet i could get that cap to fit other atty decks easily. thus allowing the use of the quartz cup in other attys.

why? cuz im a tinkerer. i tinker. probably going to have to wait on my next pay day before ordering a kit.

any word on replacement cups and caps?
 

StickyShisha2

Well-Known Member
apparently my cell phone hasn't been sending my e-mail, for about a week. I think it is working now. i ran all the updates and rebooted. (i'm not a tech person)

hopefully Matt gets my email now, finally says sent

edit to add: yep it sent. He responded. Order placed.
 
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Bad Ocelot

Well-Known Member
What's the diameter of the QQ? Looking at heat sinks now & there are way more options than the last time I bought one, ha. I have one, but it's fused to my old Triton 2 from my subohm nic vaping days, ha. Switched over to lower tech, hi resistance gear & nic salts so I'm not forever fucking with coils, builds, refilling, recharging etc. Will the heat sink affect temp control at all? Feels like I should know the answer to this but I totally don't.

I've been using the DC Gen 2 a good bit lately, & I haven't overheated my old og RX200 in quite a while. I usually get two sessions out of a load though, if I did it all at once that might get a temp warning. I think I might've fused the leads to the deck though, tried to remove the heating chamber last night & it was a no go, was able to easily wipe it out with an iso pad though, so not a big deal. Although it is less rebuildable now, ha. One little hack I've been doing with the Gen 2, that I picked up from using the Ascent by DaVinci, is putting some glass flowers in the bowl. I'll put one flat on the bottom & sometimes one one the top of the load as well, with the long point going down into the load. This pushes the goods away from the middle & towards the heating surface. The one on top can also act as a secondary screen keeping stuff from getting stuck onto the screen part of the mouthpiece. The one on the bottom also keeps some ganja off the floor of the chamber, which doesn't heat. This definitely seems to increase the efficiency of the atty & helps with airflow a little as well. Anyone else doing this or similar?

& now a couple mod related questions for @Vape Donkey 650 , you've got the qq on an evic basic in some of the pics, right? How well does that mod handle the qq's power requirements? And it looks like the Invoke is runs the batteries in series as opposed to parallel, so can it get where it needs to go with just one 18650? Would be cool to be able to use the second battery port as storage in certain situations. If this is indeed the case, can it still run on just one battery after flashing arctic fox?
 

Kanna_Kult

Well-Known Member
So I have an evic VTC mini that I use with the top airflow Sai and being a single battery mod the battery life is shit, like a few sessions and it's dead. I imagine the QQ probably eats up even more power, but I seriously need one in my life hahaha. I've been considering either a 150w cuboid from joyetech or the predator 228 from wismec, or possibly a triple battery mod (if I go triple I'll probably get a wismec) if y'all think it's necessary. I want something as small and light as possible but that won't die in a few hours. Really like they way the cuboid looks and I'm already familiar with the joyetech software/firmware but it's old so idk if the predator 228 would be better. I am not a juice vaper so I'd never need anything above 100 watts for any reason I can think of. I'd like to keep the mod under $50 not including shipping. Suggestions?

EDIT: I am not stuck on these, also considered the VTC dual, evic primo, or voopoo drag. Just need something powerful but not to huge or immensely heavy. I'd like to be able to take it on a several hour hike without worry of it dying (not as much of an issue cus I don't like getting too high when im that high up lol) or to take down to the lake. just needs to do TC and easily reach 70w without killing the batteries
 
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Kanna_Kult,
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Vape Donkey 650

All vape, no smoke please.
I wonder how well a thick silicon o-ring/gasket placed snuggly around the quartz cup would work to seal off the air path from the heating element? This would obviously affect heating efficiency of the quartz cup but might be a quick and cheap solution for anyone concerned.

I would be more concerned about hot silicone offgasing than the solder. Silicone is not a very vaporizer friendly material in my opinion and experience. O-rings on a mouthpiece are about as much as I want to tolerate silicone.

You wouldn't want to put any silicon or plastic touching directly to the quartz cup when it's in use, it can get over 500F and will melt even high-heat silicon, not good. The concerns about off-gassing from the solders on the ceramic rods seem highly hypothetical to me, so I don't see any need to try to isolate them from the air path.

I also don't see anything wrong with using silicon on vapes, provided it is rated to the proper temp and isn't coming in direct contact with the hottest parts of your vaporizer. O-rings and mouthpieces, fine, but most 510 / e-cig type atomizers also use some sort of silicon gasket or seal to separate the negative and positive flow on user-replaceable atomizer coils and 510 connectors. That's usually not touching the hottest parts, but it can be adjacent, and it seems to work out fine. Then there's also the vast usefulness of silicon tubes for connecting vapes to water tools in different ways, but I think I'm in a small minority in that interest. :shrug:

idk. pretty sure i could easily fit that cup into either my Vandy Vape Mesh RDA or one of my Rafale X attys. securing it wont be an issue at all.

as for the airflow... how is a not perfectly directed airflow going to stop the cup from vaping? do the heaters rely on airflow to operate? or are you saying itll just burn the dabs? i find it hard to believe that the airflow provided by my RDAs wont be sufficient for a nice vape out of those quartz cups. we arent talking about a lot of space here.

With this design you just don't want too much airflow or you'll start cooling down the load. The cup relies on the directional airflow to move the oil across hotter parts of the cup to produce vapor instead of the oil just running or pooling from the heat via capillary effect.

i see. but that one tube in there, is only going to flow air in one direction... wont that make it pool the opposite direction?

It seems to function pretty closely to a directional flow carb cap off a quartz banger at spinning the oil.

inverted has an idea on why the MP with directional tube is necessary. If you had airflow coming in from only the sides or underneath of a cup with tall walls, most of the air would just bypass the cup and rush straight up to the exit, out the mouthpiece. The oil would simply pool in the cup as it melts, and mere wisps of vapor would be produced.

The tall walls of the cup require some airflow to be blasted directly inside of it to make good vapor. And the diagonal angle of the tube to the cup makes for the swirl pattern which is helpful. Just don't overload the cup or tilt it too much in use because it is possible for oil to spill over.


id like to see a SS cap for this device. one of my friends is gonna drop this thing i just know it.

I would love to see a metal cap for the QQ also. It is more easily possible to mass-produce smaller, more precise and complex parts in metal than glass, and perhaps it will be possible to make a double-tube SS cap for the QQ to make a swirl pattern and airflow even superior to the single tube! At the trade-off of not being able to see your oil melt and swirl, I might take that.

The QQ is just coming out now, we can hope alternative and extra tops will be available in the near-future. Even more than metal, I'd like to see 14 & 18mm glass tops to connect it to my rigs and hydratubes...


watched the video again. appears this device is suited for situations when being discreet is not an issue. and when time isnt an issue. seems it takes min for it to really get up to temp. so maybe not ideal for being in public...?

my interest is definitely peaked though. ill have to order one when i can sneak it into my budget.

oh and i checked the site for the replacement parts, but only found the heaters for the cup. will the cup be available as well?

Definitely not for situations when not being noticed is an issue, and it probably won't be a good atomizer for quick, sneaky hits. But for safer, private vape places, it looks like it could function like a handy, quartz banger-on-the-go.

Honestly, I don't think this will be a great atomizer for the type of vaping I think you favor, but I wouldn't tell you not to buy it, either :p

It looks like the cups aren't available as a single part you can order, but that will change soon hopefully. (someone will break it and need it surely)

Inside diameter of the glass caps is about 18mm. Unlike the quartz cups as a stand-alone, I think it might be possible to utilize the glass caps for some creative uses on other RDAs that it will fit on...

After your interest in the QQ has peaked, then bottomed out, maybe your interest can be... "re-piqued" and make it's way into your cart on your next round of vape purchases? :D (homonyms)


"get a 510 adapter / heat sink to protect your mod on extended usage."

suggestions?

It's going to come with one. And you can get them for cheap at local vape shops, usually.

adding to this...

you can get them online for like $2-5. just google “510 heatsink”.

ive got two coming from Slowtech

Yup, you can buy heat sinks pretty cheap at vape stores and the typical online retailers, dhgate, alibaba, slowtech, gearworst, ebay, etc... 22, 24, 25mm size, many colors.

I bought a big mix-grab-bag of 22 & 24mm heat sinks from a vendor on dhgate, and they work, but I don't really like how the center pin has a loose, sloppy adjustability, you just loosen it on the bottom with a flathead screwdriver, and then the 510 connector on your atomizer pushes down the heat's sinks center pin into place. I think a positive 510 pin that is threaded and can be adjusted by screwing it, not just the pin on your atty pushing it, would be more secure. Most of these heat sinks fit fine on my mods, others feel too tight, almost that I might be damaging my mods by screwing them in all the way, but no damage yet :shrug:

It may be worth it to spend a couple bucks more and get heat sinks made a little better than the ones I have, but it's not easy to judge that just from looking at the pics or reading a few quick reviews. Maybe @KeroZen can recommend a known brand or vendor that sells a high quality heat sink. Even if it costs more than 5 bucks, it might be worth it to save the 510 connector on your mod.

@PandaLee I don't think the QQ comes with a heat sink. It's not shown on the pics on the website or mentioned that it comes with it, although Matt seems to be using one on his testing. It's a separate, add-on heat sink, not an integral part of the metal base.

Again, they're not "required" equipment, but are recommended, especially for the power users :ko:
 
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