PBW & the Chemistry of Clean

[waxdab23]

Directly from Kannastor

Kannastor Tips:


If cleaning a grinder with a clear acrylic body or acrylic clear top lid, do not use rubbing alcohol, boil in water or freeze the acrylic jar parts as it may create cracks in the acrylic.


For acrylic parts, either use soap and warm water or other acrylic friendly cleaner.


While ISO is very good at removing residue, it can also be harmful to fragile components of the GR8TR.


For a mild cleaning, soap and warm water will do fine.


If you're looking for a deeper clean, a powdered 420 cleaner is a safe bet as well.


Liquid 420 cleaners are basically just ISO with an abrasive agent, so be careful to get something non-alcohol based!

Where do you see these tips from Kannastor?

 

[Silat]

Where do you see these tips from Kannastor?

I got them directly from Kannastor.

Start here. It took me 10 seconds to go to the kannastor site and find this:
http://www.kannastor.com/blog/washing-101-keeping-your-grinder-clean-without-harm/

 

[waxdab23]

I got them directly from Kannastor.

Start here. It took me 10 seconds to go to the kannastor site and find this:
http://www.kannastor.com/blog/washing-101-keeping-your-grinder-clean-without-harm/

I don't see anything about 420 cleaner at that link or anywhere on the Kannastor website like you quoted.

Edit: In fact, when I Google what you quoted, all I can find is you quoting the same on several other forum sites, but nothing from Kannastor referencing powdered 420 cleaner.

I only ask because I'm trying to open a claim with them and they asked me to point out where their site stated it was safe to clean with powdered 420 cleaner Lolol. Couldn't find it.

Anyway, sorry for the thread derail. Lesson is: don't use pbw on your grinders.

 

[Silat]

I don't see anything about 420 cleaner at that link or anywhere on the Kannastor website like you quoted.

Edit: In fact, when I Google what you quoted, all I can find is you quoting the same on several other forum sites, but nothing from Kannastor referencing powdered 420 cleaner.

I only ask because I'm trying to open a claim with them and they asked me to point out where their site stated it was safe to clean with powdered 420 cleaner Lolol. Couldn't find it.

Anyway, sorry for the thread derail. Lesson is: don't use pbw on your grinders.

I got it directly from Kannastor is what I said.
They mailed it to me when I asked them about cleaning as I had purchased 2 of the windowed full size GR8TR's. It may be on their site somewhere.
I am starting a conversation with you (private) to give you the info. Please respond so I know you got the info.
Hope it helps you. I am surprised they just did not eat it and give you a new grinder.

 

[sokesleezy]

Can pbw be used on a vinyl hose?

 

[t-dub]

Can pbw be used on a vinyl hose?

I never tried it but it should be fine. We won't really know until someone cuts a small piece and puts it in a jar with some PBW for a while to see what happens. Judging from their data sheet, it should be ok.

 

[OF]

Damn, just gave my Gr8r a PBW wash and I think I fucked up...

I tried washing it again with just water and vinegar but the PBW residue wouldn't budge. Would you guys worry about grinding with this?

Sadly you're not alone. Several guys have blazed that trail before you and posted about it. Your photos are better from what I recall. It's not a solvent like ISO but an aggressive detergent with lots of buffers and stuff to keep it aggressively attacking the gunk. And some metals. SS should be OK, but Aluminum not so.

To answer your question, I would not use it personally. Not the sort of stuff I want to add to an already pretty confused body chemistry. I suggest replacement? If you do decide to use it, and the worst happens, can I have your vapes?

OF

 

[waxdab23]

Sadly you're not alone. Several guys have blazed that trail before you and posted about it. Your photos are better from what I recall. It's not a solvent like ISO but an aggressive detergent with lots of buffers and stuff to keep it aggressively attacking the gunk. And some metals. SS should be OK, but Aluminum not so.

To answer your question, I would not use it personally. Not the sort of stuff I want to add to an already pretty confused body chemistry. I suggest replacement? If you do decide to use it, and the worst happens, can I have your vapes?

OF

Lol Kannastor sent me a replacement.

 

[t-dub]

Yeah, if the piece had an anodized finish then PBW will strip it right off.

I found out the hard way as well with my SC Ti . . .

Now If I can use granules of PBW and citric acid

Since PBW is alkaline in nature, adding citric acid may be self defeating. Just a thought . . .

 

[CalyxSmokr]

so I just got my first jar of pbw and now I am a little confused how to use it.
With iso I just fill with enough iso and give it a shake every once in awhile over a few days and then pour it off into the next dirty piece. Rinse repeat until the iso is too dark to reuse.
Can I do this with PBW solution? I really don't want to waste what looks like gallon of hot water to use this stuff.
btw: Vibes to those with the grinders all fucked up. Oooooof.

-thx guise: I was really not understanding its use

 

[Hogni]

It's a one way solution with hot water for soaking of nearly 10'.

 

[MinnBobber]

I really don't want to waste what looks like gallon of hot water to use this stuff.

.........................................................
I pre-heat my glass with hot tap water, to avoid thermal shock.
Then I microwave some distilled water to very hot, like 170 F. I only use a little more than the glass bubbler holds, so maybe 8 oz?? Add 1/8 teaspoon of PBW to this hot water and stir to make sure it is totally dissolved.
Pour out the pre-heat water.
Using @Ratchett silicone plugs, try to fill completely. Let soak for only about 10 minutes. Dump and then rinse 3 times with warm distilled water.

Things to avoid with PBW:
- if not totally dissolved, the floating white particles can stick to glass and be tough to remove.
- if you soak too long and glass is not totally fully (there is a water line), then a white ring can form at the waterline.

For me with PBW, less is more:
- use less powder and do another cycle if necessary
- soak for minimal time and do another cycle if necessary

 

[t-dub]

For me with PBW, less is more:
- use less powder and do another cycle if necessary
- soak for minimal time and do another cycle if necessary

This is excellent policy. PBW is environmentally friendly so we don't have to worry about putting it down the drain. It actually puts oxygen back into the water which is a good thing.

When cleaning always try to use the least amount of chemical to get the job done correctly.

 

[vapviking]

.........................................................
I pre-heat my glass with hot tap water, to avoid thermal shock.
Then I microwave some distilled water to very hot, like 170 F. I only use a little more than the glass bubbler holds, so maybe 8 oz?? Add 1/8 teaspoon of PBW to this hot water and stir to make sure it is totally dissolved.
Pour out the pre-heat water.
Using @Ratchett silicone plugs, try to fill completely. Let soak for only about 10 minutes. Dump and then rinse 3 times with warm distilled water.

Things to avoid with PBW:
- if not totally dissolved, the floating white particles can stick to glass and be tough to remove.
- if you soak too long and glass is not totally fully (there is a water line), then a white ring can form at the waterline.

For me with PBW, less is more:
- use less powder and do another cycle if necessary
- soak for minimal time and do another cycle if necessary

Dude, are you taking pics of your paraphernalia like, out in your driveway?
It looks like a lemonade stand!

"Hey! Get yer bong hits over here. Two Five bucks!"

 

[CuckFumbustion]

.........................................................
I pre-heat my glass with hot tap water, to avoid thermal shock.
Then I microwave some distilled water to very hot, like 170 F. I only use a little more than the glass bubbler holds, so maybe 8 oz?? Add 1/8 teaspoon of PBW to this hot water and stir to make sure it is totally dissolved.
Pour out the pre-heat water.
Using @Ratchett silicone plugs, try to fill completely. Let soak for only about 10 minutes. Dump and then rinse 3 times with warm distilled water.

Things to avoid with PBW:
- if not totally dissolved, the floating white particles can stick to glass and be tough to remove.
- if you soak too long and glass is not totally fully (there is a water line), then a white ring can form at the waterline.

For me with PBW, less is more:
- use less powder and do another cycle if necessary
- soak for minimal time and do another cycle if necessary

Your piece stains in the same manner as mine. The outside of the perc catches all the particles and they stick to other particles passing through. It can really effect the amount of goodness from Vape to person.

I have been using rubber corks and time with my HT and other glass pieces. Have an extra long test tube brush which gets used as a cork for the mouthpiece of the HT.
I brush and rinse out everything that wants to come out first. Less particles means more PBW oxygen action can get to the surface.

Make a PBW slurry and slosh it around the problem areas and hang for 1m.

With the slowest trickle of hot water, fill the piece and cork. Let it hang and work on the stubborn spots. It won't remove the tougher ones, but will cause them to relent more when I empty all the water and add a small amount of ISO to slosh around and melt the worst of it. The normal PBW rinse and repeat until it shines.

I keep a rotation with my glass now. 1/3 will be in soak mode while I use the other 2/3 of my collection. Never allowing for more than a week of buildup.

My D020-d and my FCball and the HT have different ways they like to get dirty and I can recognize the problem areas. The FCball has the toughest surface to clean with the contour of the ball being a residue magnent, if not kept free of particles. Which is a take away every time you take a draw. Cleaning your glass can save you money!

 

[CuckFumbustion]

Have a small squared jar with lid that is my Shake jar. After a quick shake in ISO for removing all the reclaim, and rinse off anything that wants to come off, I place the ELB caps in first in the jar and add some PBW and shake. Then add the bowl half because they caps will seat themselves back in the bowl end of the ELB while shaking otherwise. The Caps are heavier and tend to not float. Unlike the Bowl half of the ELBs.

After adding PBW, I fill the water to the brim and close and shake. I am deliberately not allowing for room to slosh around in. Trying to get the most of the Oxy-clean action with all the trapped gasses looking for an exit.

I have notices hoe oxygen bubbles will collect on any residue with my glass and weaken what it can't clean outright. With the sealed shake jar, I shake it occasionally and can see and hear the turbulence. I'm going to see how much tarnish I can remove today.

 

[CuckFumbustion]

Well my weekly routine of keeping glass my glass and ss clean is paying off. Since buildup on the surfaces are never allowed much holding ground to begin with and there is even finer cleaning in the tighter areas, I have been getting the more of the benefits of using less product including hot water and less time. I'm aware of the problem areas and can get more impact from say a simple warm water rinse. ISO the stubborn spots at least one pass, Then use granules of PBW at a time until it gleams.

KIM I did the initial overnight soak and tried to be thorough and meticulous the first time out. Also in the future, I do need to get a better method of getting the last residue from my glass without using less heat and water extremes.Having have hard water, so that re-invites particles back to the surface. Which pulls me in the opposite direction.

Rubber corks, long test tube brushes, ISO, PBW and some select silicone containers. There are a ton of types and shapes of silicone trays, tubs, 'catch-alls' to choose from out there. Match the shape you need for the project.

One example, I had collapsible type vegetable strainer-washer with a wide handle that I use for my j-hooks which are awkward to handle under a sink of hot water. now more fumble and stress free.

Another nice pairing. I had lying around a rectangular office catch all that were the right size for my HT to sit inside it and enough bend to allow the rubber cork in the bottom to keep all the water inside. The HT can then be set on it's side on a flat surface with a long test tube scrubber inside the mouthpiece. Now, it can hold more water. Since it is hard to get a rubber cork to stay in the mouthpiece and not close enough of an opening to a socket standard cork. Good enough. Although I prefer airtight for overnight long soaks. Get the most gas action inn the mix. Amiright?

The ELBs go in the square silicone tray. I squeeze the opposite corners and form a lip when I want to drain most of the water out and not allow one of the caps to pour out.

The D020-D still gets the dirtiest the quickest and deepest. I cork the center and have a rubber cork with two holes that allow for a pinch so it can go in the mouthpiece end. Prevent some spillage.
For long soaks, The bubbles that form on the outside of the perc are more noticeable and seem to weaken the residue.

 

[sixstringsmash]

Hey @t-dub I had a quick question to ask about using PBW to clean a vapcap stem made from Mokume if you don't mind and maybe might know. I've recently started using it to clean all my glass but all this talk of stripping the finishes off of grinders makes me not sure if I want to try using it on my nice Mokume stem. Do you think this is something I should avoid cleaning with PBW too or should it be safe? Thanks.

 

[t-dub]

Mokume is a product made by fusing several layers of different colored precious metals together to form a sandwich of alloys called a billet. The billet is then manipulated in such a way that a pattern resembling wood grain emerges over the surface.

This is very different than an anodized finish which is applied in an electrochemical process to grinders.

HOWEVER . . .

To increase the contrast between the laminate layers many Mokume items are colored by the application of a patina (a controlled corrosion layer) to accentuate or even totally change the colors of the metal's surface.

If your stem has a finish on it like this I would keep PBW far, far away from it . . .

If your stem is just laminated metals, with no special finish, and you are willing to proceed at your own risk, you could try a very small test patch to see what happens, however, I am not recommending you do this because I do not want to be responsible for ruining your stem . . .

Edit: If you are unsure of your stem's finish I would avoid PBW all together . . .

 

[sixstringsmash]

@t-dub thank you very much for that detailed explanation. As of now I'm not quite sure if a patina was applied or not, although I might be able to find out if I shoot dynavap an email. For the time being though I think I'll take the road of caution! Thanks again!

 

[walkinginthetalltrees]

The directions say the last step is to add Star San. I only bought PBW, do I need to add a sanitizer after?

 

[Baron23]

The directions say the last step is to add Star San. I only bought PBW, do I need to add a sanitizer after?

No

 

[t-dub]

The directions say the last step is to add Star San. I only bought PBW, do I need to add a sanitizer after?

The proper answer is this: If you wish to sterilize your project then the answer is yes. If we are just cleaning then the answer is no. PBW is NOT a sanitizer. People need to understand this because sanitation with glass is often a very necessary step.

 

[ZC]

So, I just tried this for the first time, but without the patience to read through the thread, I just kinda winged it. So tell me if I did anything wrong.

I just put about a teaspoon of PBW in the piece and then filled it up with hot water. Let it sit for a few minutes, and then started running more hot water through it. I saw it literally grap resin and fleks of material off the sides of the piece and push them out with the water. Once the piece looked suitably clean, I started dumping and rinsing to get the rest of the PBW out of the piece. Again, all with hot water. Kept rinsing until everything looked perfectly clear and the piece felt squeeky clean.

Really impressed with the results and how easy it was, but again I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong.

 

[Gigsabits53]

So, I just tried this for the first time, but without the patience to read through the thread, I just kinda winged it. So tell me if I did anything wrong.

I just put about a teaspoon of PBW in the piece and then filled it up with hot water. Let it sit for a few minutes, and then started running more hot water through it. I saw it literally grap resin and fleks of material off the sides of the piece and push them out with the water. Once the piece looked suitably clean, I started dumping and rinsing to get the rest of the PBW out of the piece. Again, all with hot water. Kept rinsing until everything looked perfectly clear and the piece felt squeeky clean.

Really impressed with the results and how easy it was, but again I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong.

I'm not sure if saw this here or somewhere else but I used to do what you are describing. I read somewhere that you should actually not put the pbw inside the glass. What I read said to mix it in container with very hot water and then put your piece in the container with water for 15-20 minutes. When done soaking, simply rinse with water until it looks clean of any debris and your good to go.